Some day, I'll bite the bullet and set up ZFS and ceph with Proxmox and make a real cluster... :(

Its really cool - the ONE thing I was missing before I could try all these different things out was a PBS. If you don't run a Proxmox Backup Server, its a
































































































































































































































worthy cause to install on almost any hardware.

What it does is allow you to create backups of any PVE CT/VMs - and even other file-based backups of HDDs or any NFS shares/whatnot.

Once you have these daily backups going, its super easy to scrap yer main PVE system; just shutdown your CT/VMs, make sure theres a current backup and re-create whatever setup you want to test. Restoring CT/VMs, or even file-based
































































































































































































































HDD/shares is super easy... this allows you to try things that weren't available without a PBS.



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16 Dec 24 19:11, you wrote to poindexter FORTRAN:

Some day, I'll bite the bullet and set up ZFS and ceph with
Proxmox and make a real cluster... :(

Its really cool - the ONE thing I was missing before I could try all
these different things out was a PBS. If you don't run a Proxmox
Backup Server, its a worthy cause to install on almost any hardware.

What it does is allow you to create backups of any PVE CT/VMs - and
even other file-based backups of HDDs or any NFS shares/whatnot.

+1 for PBS. It took me a while to realise that it was so much better than just
































































































































































































































NAS backups as it does incremental & ZFS de-deplication also - resulting in far
































































































































































































































less disk usage on my "backup" NAS.

Satch

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Satchmo


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Re: FInally hit a wall...
By: Satchmo to paulie420 on Tue Dec 17 2024 04:38 pm

+1 for PBS. It took me a while to realise that it was so much better than just NAS backups as it does incremental & ZFS de-deplication also - resultin in far less disk usage on my "backup" NAS.

Ok, you sold me. I'm backing up the same download files over and over and over again...
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Win32
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+1 for PBS. It took me a while to realise that it was so much better
than just NAS backups as it does incremental & ZFS de-deplication also - resulting in far less disk usage on my "backup" NAS.

Another thing I recently figured out w/ PBS is that it can handle much more than just Proxmox CT/VMs; it can also do file-based backups using proxmox-backup-client, meaning I now use it to make 3-2-1 backups of my entire NAS NFS shares...

Those run a bit slow, IMO - even tho I have them mounted on a 10GB NIC... kinda































































































































































































































weird; maybe I need to check into that setup a bit more.

I hate that TrueNAS doesn't like me to install outside tools (like proxmox-backup-client) so I have to run it on the PBS machine instead of right on the TrueNAS box. :/

Having used rsync in the past, I really like this solution for more than just PVE stuff.



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+1 for PBS. It took me a while to realise that it was so much better th just NAS backups as it does incremental & ZFS de-deplication also - res in far less disk usage on my "backup" NAS.

Ok, you sold me. I'm backing up the same download files over and over
and over again...

It's so cool - if you have a backup if:

file1.ext
file2.ext
file3.ext

And backup... and add files;

file1.ext
file2.ext
file3.ext
file4.ext

And backup again - only file4.ext takes up more space.... then, if you remove some stuffs;

file1.ext
file3.ext
file4.ext

And run a 'prune' command, file2.ext is removed. :P Its so flipping nice. As opposed to using other methods that have you copying the same data over and over again...



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paulie420 wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

+1 for PBS. It took me a while to realise that it was so much better th just NAS backups as it does incremental & ZFS de-deplication also - res in far less disk usage on my "backup" NAS.

Ok, you sold me. I'm backing up the same download files over and over
and over again...

It's so cool - if you have a backup if:

I think I'm going to run PBS as a VM under Proxmox instead of a
bare-metal install. My only spare system at the moment is a Pi 4, and
it sounds a bit complicated. If I needed to, re-installing Proxmox,
changing the basic settings and installing PBS shouldn't be too hard.

I'm backing up to NFS, not locally to PBS.

Deduping should save a ton of space - I do a full backup of the BBS VM
through Proxmox and a file-level backup to NFS weekly.




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I think I'm going to run PBS as a VM under Proxmox instead of a
bare-metal install. My only spare system at the moment is a Pi 4, and
it sounds a bit complicated. If I needed to, re-installing Proxmox,
changing the basic settings and installing PBS shouldn't be too hard.

So - if I move my PBS machine from the Dell tower to one of my Poweredge servers, I might run it on top of Proxmox, too; this way I could get rid of a Raspberry Pi Proxmox quorum node that I run. [I have a 3 node Proxmox cluster...]

I'm backing up to NFS, not locally to PBS.

I use my NFS for file storage; like on all my laptops ~/Downloads, ~/Documents,






























































































































































































































etc etc - I syncthing to the NAS... then I backup the entire NAS to my PBS. So I guess ONE of my backups gets sent to the NAS, but I try to keep a proper 3-2-1 backup system - its getting so big, however, that I'm gonna have to buy more hardware in order to get an offsite backup.

One really cool thing I've been looking into - is linking up with someone else who has the same sized NAS as I do, and doing the remote backups with them. I give them access to some share on my NAS/PBS, and they do the same for me, and we send encrypted backups offsite; sharing the hardware we run so we both have a FINAL 3-2-*1* backup offsite... I just need to find someone else who runs a 100TB+ NAS. :P



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Re: Re: FInally hit a wall...
By: paulie420 to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Dec 18 2024 07:37 pm

Howdy,

so we both have a FINAL 3-2-*1* backup offsite... I just need to find someone else who runs a 100TB+ NAS. :P

How much data is on that 100TB nas backup?

I dont use PBS, but I'm a restic fan. So a backup without a server - you just need a "target" to store your backups - and in my case, I have an S3 target setup (using minio).

It also supports de-dupe, compression and encryption :)

At the moment, my "offsite" is a 2TB pCloud disk, so I use restic to backup my important data on the NAS to a specific 2TB drive, and then replicate that drive to pCloud. (So I have fast recovery if I need it, and protection if my house burns down. :)

I'd actually prefer to restic to another s3 target (pCloud unforutnately doesnt






























































































































































































































support s3, so its a hack of rclone to make it work).

Be happy to be that 3rd party offsite, but I could only provide an S3 target (with an SSL client - so encrypted tunnel, and restic stores the backup encrypted).

I dont have 100TB, spare, but my NAS has spare slots and I have a couple of 4TB






























































































































































































































drives here, somewhere ;)

Restoring from it would be a pain though, while I'm 1000MBs down, I'm only 50MBs up at the moment, hoping to change that to 250down/100up soon...

Thought I'd mention it :)


...ëîåï
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paulie420 wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

I use my NFS for file storage; like on all my laptops ~/Downloads, ~/Documents, etc etc - I syncthing to the NAS... then I backup the
entire NAS to my PBS. So I guess ONE of my backups gets sent to the
NAS, but I try to keep a proper 3-2-1 backup system - its getting so
big, however, that I'm gonna have to buy more hardware in order to get
an offsite backup.

I do something similar - store media locally on a spinning drive. Use
Resilio Sync to back up to my Synology. Use Synology backup to back up
to an external USB drive.

One really cool thing I've been looking into - is linking up with
someone else who has the same sized NAS as I do, and doing the remote backups with them. I give them access to some share on my NAS/PBS, and they do the same for me, and we send encrypted backups offsite; sharing the hardware we run so we both have a FINAL 3-2-*1* backup offsite... I just need to find someone else who runs a 100TB+ NAS. :P

If you want to rent out space on your NAS, I might have a business
model for you. :) I'm looking into AT&T fiber, and once I'm off of
Comcast with their bandwidth caps, am looking at backing up to the
cloud somewhere as another layer of protection. I've only got around
3TB I'm backing up.




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so we both have a FINAL 3-2-*1* backup offsite... I just need to find someone else who runs a 100TB+ NAS. :P

How much data is on that 100TB nas backup?

Well; I'm currently @ 30TB or so, but for THAT offsite backup I wouldn't even mind finding a buddy for personal photos/stuff that would be much less. (Or, for the whole enchilada!!)

Restoring from it would be a pain though, while I'm 1000MBs down, I'm
only 50MBs up at the moment, hoping to change that to 250down/100up soon...

Thought I'd mention it :)

Thanks kindly; and I'm the same - I've been eying a much cheaper (so they say, anyway) fiber internet thats available here w/ 1Gbps/1Gbps - but it has that weird IP that changes and makes another step for running the public-facing services... (bbs, etc)



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Re: Re: FInally hit a wall...
By: poindexter FORTRAN to paulie420 on Thu Dec 19 2024 09:15 am

Howdy,

If you want to rent out space on your NAS, I might have a business
model for you. :) I'm looking into AT&T fiber, and once I'm off of
Comcast with their bandwidth caps, am looking at backing up to the
cloud somewhere as another layer of protection. I've only got around
3TB I'm backing up.

Have you heard of tahoe-lafs?

I played with it a few years ago - and its design is perfect for this.

It's effectively raid (or erasure coding) across unreliable targets. IE: Everybody provides capacity, and data stored is split, encrypted and erasure coded across everybody's drives (so no single person has a full file - and the data is encrypted anyway).

If a node goes down, your data is still recoverable from other targets - upto the parity setting. IE: If you set parity to 3, then 3 systems can go offline and your data is still accessible.

The trouble I had with it, is health check and repair, there didnt seem to be an easy way to manage, validate and repair as a hosting "node". IE: If I had two drives, one failed and I replaced it with a new drive, I couldnt recover all the "chunks" for data hosted there - only the data owner could.

Development was slow as well...


...ëîåï
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deon wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Have you heard of tahoe-lafs?

No, I haven't. Sounds interesting!

I played with it a few years ago - and its design is perfect for this.

It's effectively raid (or erasure coding) across unreliable targets.
IE: Everybody provides capacity, and data stored is split, encrypted
and erasure coded across everybody's drives (so no single person has a full file - and the data is encrypted anyway).

I'm thinking Pied Piper, now. :)

If a node goes down, your data is still recoverable from other targets
- upto the parity setting. IE: If you set parity to 3, then 3 systems
can go offline and your data is still accessible.

That would be an interesting experiment, if a group of people got
together and offered x amount of disk space and bandwidth into a storage
pool.


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Re: Re: FInally hit a wall...
By: poindexter FORTRAN to deon on Fri Dec 20 2024 10:00 am

Howdy,

That would be an interesting experiment, if a group of people got
together and offered x amount of disk space and bandwidth into a storage pool.

So I'm in - I've been meaning to take another look at tahoe to see how it has progressed...

I'll look at making a docker image, so that's easier to install/setup. If others are interested (not necessarily using the docker image), then let me know - it'd be good to see how well it works - and performs.

Ideally there should be 5 minimum in the cluster, but more is better ;)


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