(:

?sn??? ??????uI ??? ?q p?????u? u??q s?? u????s ?no?

!H?H?H?H ?u!op ?p?sdn p??? no? u??



--

--- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

Hello August,

On Saturday May 30 2020 02:32, you wrote to All:

(:

?sn??? ??????uI ??? ?q p?????u? u??q s??
u????s ?no?

!H?H?H?H ?u!op ?p?sdn p??? no? u??

Hmmm, most of the characters are just the little squares indicating my system does not support the glyphs in question...

Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: Bl?f T?n?n (2:280/5555)

Hello August Abolins!

30 May 20 02:32:44, August Abolins wrote to All:

(:

?sn??? ??????uI ??? ?q p?????u? u??q s?? u????s ?no?

!H?H?H?H ?u!op ?p?sdn p??? no? u??

After turning upside down your message looked this way:
http://pics.rsh.ru/img/upside_down_k63qzi3w.png

Almost perfect. It is strange that gossiped swallowed two characters of "Can".

Michael


--- gossipEd-linux/amd64 2.0.3-50-13c584e8
* Origin: ??????? ???????? (2:5020/1042.3)

Hello, August Abolins.
On 30/05/2020 2.32 you wrote:

(:
?sn??? ??????uI ??? ?q p?????u? u??q s?? u????s ?no?
!H?H?H?H ?u?op ?p?sdn p??? no? u??
--

!looC

Looks almost ok in Hotdoged, only the w in the word "down" is not w.


--
Tommi

--- HotdogEd/2.13.5 (Android; Google Android; rv:1) Hotdoged/1587085792000 HotdogEd/2.13.5
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

Re: oopsie daisy
By: Michiel van der Vlist to August Abolins on Sat May 30 2020 10:54:42


MvdV> Hmmm, most of the characters are just the little squares indicating
MvdV> my system does not support the glyphs in question...

they don't quote properly with this editor but in the reader, everything showed up quite properly except for the upside down 'w'... but i'm in a konsole terminal ssh'd into my BBS reading/replying live and 'online'...

TERM=xterm
LANG=en_US.UTF-8

apparently i'm also using the "Monospace" font out of some 26 fonts available... all of which appear to be monospace format...


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

On 5/30/2020 7:09 AM, between "Tommi Koivula : August Abolins":

(:
?sn??? ??????uI ??? ?q p?????u? u??q s?? u????s ?no?
!H?H?H?H ?u?op ?p?sdn p??? no? u??
--

!looC

!?oo?

Looks almost ok in Hotdoged, only the w in the word "down" is not w.

Yeah.. I noticed that when the message got saved. Is that because of TB's limitation at "UTF-8 4" and not supporting "UTF-8 16" ?


Meanwhile, simple hack:

!H?H?H?H ?umop ?p?sdn p??? no? u??


UTF-8 is revealing many possibilities.

Oopsie daisy version:

?s??????q?ssod ?u?? ?u??????? s? 8-??N

--- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

On 5/30/2020 4:54 AM, between "Michiel van der Vlist : August Abolins":

!H?H?H?H ?u?op ?p?sdn p??? no? u??

MvdV>
MvdV> Hmmm, most of the characters are just the little squares
MvdV> indicating my system does not support the glyphs in question...

I cheated. Your UTF-8 project assumes or is limited to language text.

But why not go the distance? <G>

--- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

On 5/30/2020 2:14 AM, between "Michael Dukelsky : August Abolins":

After turning upside down your message looked this way: http://pics.rsh.ru/img/upside_down_k63qzi3w.png

LOL!

--- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

Hello August,

On Saturday May 30 2020 19:28, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> Hmmm, most of the characters are just the little squares
MvdV>> indicating my system does not support the glyphs in question...

I cheated. Your UTF-8 project assumes or is limited to language text.

In what way did you cheat? You have to explain. Also I am not sure what you mean by "language text". Fidonet is about text messages isn't it?

But why not go the distance? <G>

Please elaborate...

Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Hello August,

Yeah.. I noticed that when the message got saved. Is that because of
TB's limitation at "UTF-8 4" and not supporting "UTF-8 16" ?

UTF-8 16? Do you mean UTF16?

UTF16 is not usable in Fidonet as a UTF16 sequence often contains NULL bytes and the NULL byte (00)is used in Fidonet to signal the end of the mesaage text.

Oopsie daisy version:

?s??????q?ssod ?u?? ?u??????? s? 8-??N

He now I see it upside down! (32bit Windows version of Vi)


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
* Origin: Bl?f T?n?n (2:280/5555)

On 5/31/2020 9:21 AM, between "Michiel van der Vlist : August Abolins":

AA>> Yeah.. I noticed that when the message got saved. Is that because of
AA>> TB's limitation at "UTF-8 4" and not supporting "UTF-8 16" ?

MvdV>
MvdV> UTF-8 16? Do you mean UTF16?

I was referring to something that I vaguely remembered when someone here mentioned that the charset kludge that Thunderbird was using here was incorrect as "utf-8 2". And I even remembered THAT wrong and wrote "UTF-8 4" in my message. :(


MvdV> UTF16 is not usable in Fidonet as a UTF16 sequence often contains
MvdV> NULL bytes and the NULL byte (00)is used in Fidonet to signal the end MvdV> of the mesaage text.

Ah.. Good to know. UTF-8 is good enough.


AA>> ?s??????q?ssod ?u?? ?u??????? s? 8-??N

MvdV>
MvdV> He now I see it upside down! (32bit Windows version of Vi)

As long as my little foray into the upside down world is still allowed, then good!

--- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

On 5/31/2020 8:48 AM, between "Michiel van der Vlist : August Abolins":

I cheated. Your UTF-8 project assumes or is limited to
language text.

MvdV> In what way did you cheat? You have to explain. Also I am
MvdV> not sure what you mean by "language text". Fidonet is
MvdV> about text messages isn't it?

I had the impression that maybe I was venturing into forbidden territory using glyphs instead of readable (right-side up) text chars.

But why not go the distance? <G>

MvdV> Please elaborate...

I dunno.. I was thinking of art using UTF-8 characters. Although we can't all be fluent in the many languages that can be represented with UTF-8, maybe some artwork could turn up the notch.

) ?o ?? ?o) :)



--
Daudz baltu dieni?u, Laimi?a dodi, Di?eni ra?eni, Dz?vojoti!

--- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

Hello August,

On Sunday May 31 2020 17:47, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> In what way did you cheat? You have to explain. Also I am
MvdV>> not sure what you mean by "language text". Fidonet is
MvdV>> about text messages isn't it?

I had the impression that maybe I was venturing into forbidden
territory using glyphs instead of readable (right-side up) text chars.

I see... Let me consult the moderator... standby...

Moderator says: Topic: The UTF-8 character encoding scheme and all that comes with it.

Playing around with "funny" UTF-8 is covered by "all that comes with it", so no prob. ;-)

MvdV>> Please elaborate...

I dunno.. I was thinking of art using UTF-8 characters.

Unlike before, we have to make the distinction between the character set and the encoding. With Morse, Baudot, EBCDIC and ASCII, there is no difference, the encoding and the character set are one and the same. But with Unicode there is a difference. Unicode uses the Universal Character Set. (UCS). Presently it covers some 144,000 characters. These are identified by a code point: U+xyzzyy where xyzzyy is a hexadecimal number up to 110000.

There is only one Unicode character set.

But there is more than one encoding. The most popular encoding method is UTF-8. There is also UTF-16 and UTF-32. Both are unsuitable for use in Fidonet because of the "NULL issue". There is UTF-7 designed for use over 7 bit channels. Mostly obsolete because 7 bit channels are mostly obsolete. Inefficient for Fidonet because Fidonet is 8 bit transparant. Even more obsure are GB18030, BOCU and SCSU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode

Although we can't all be fluent in the many languages that can be represented with UTF-8, maybe some artwork could turn up the notch.

We will see...


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)