(or as I would usually write, "Long filename support").

So... a long long time ago, in a California county no so far from away, I wrote a BBS program for 16-bit PC/MS-DOS systems from scratch in C...

And all files on those systems had filenames in the old CPM/DOS "8.3" format, with no exceptions. So when I created an ad-hod file database (filebase) file format for the BBS software, I naturally built this filenaming format into the filebase format, along with a lot of other silly limitations (24-bit data file offsets... really?).

Microsoft addressed the progression to long filenames and backwards compatibility with a bit of a hack: the Micros~1 shorted-filenames are stored in the FAT along with the full/long filenames and Microsoft provided an API to get one from the other in applications (programs) - so that kind of solved the problem for Windows sysops: it didn't matter that Synchronet only stored the "short filename", you could also get/display the long filename anytime it was wanted.

Modern Unix-like operating systems (e.g. based on Linux or BSD) never had 8.3 filenaming limit built-in, so they never needed any backward compatible hack like Microsoft supplied for Windows and Windows programs, so there's been this long-standing annoying limitation in Synchronet for *nix: the 8.3 filenames.

It would have been fairly trivial to just increase the filename storage space in the filebase format and provide an update/conversion utility and say: there, done. But there are a lot of other problems with the filebase format that are just way-long-over-due for fixing, so I wasn't inclined to only fix the filename length issue and leave everything else with the filebases the same.

Some years ago, while pondering a new filebase storage format, I concluded that the Synchronet Message Base (SMB) storage format would actually make a good filebase format with very few modifications. I've re-visisted this idea many times over the years and my opinion has not changed. I started experimenting with the necessary SMB library changes needed about a year ago and now I've picked that task back up and am going at it strong.

Replacing the filebase format (with *any* alternative format) is no small task because so long ago, I was kind of a copy/paste type programmer and didn't have good design concepts for modularity and reusable code. And with all the various utilities and features that read/write to the Synchronet filebases, that's a lot of areas to revisit and fix-up.

I was originally planning on waiting for SBBS v4 to roll-out the filebase replacement, but I changed my mind and have been prodded into working on "sooner" than that by some persistent sbbs/Linux sysop(s) - and I agree: it's long overdue and more urgent than most of the other v4-slated changes.

Here's sort of my plan and current state:

1. SMBLIB/SMBUTIL/CHKSMB/FIXSMB updated for filebases, done
2. FILELIST utility updated, done
3. ADDFILES utility updated, in-progress
4. DELFILES utility updated, to-do
5. SBBS internal file access functions updated, in-progress
6. New JS FileBase class, to-do
7. FTP server update, to-do
7. Update any legacy JS or other mods that access the old filebases, to-do

The obvious improvement will be with the stored filenames and some issues with the old 8.3->long filename resolutions on Windows will go away as well (in some cases, the Micros~1 shortened filename can change even though the long filename did not).

However, this will address other "issues" and pave the way to cool new features:
- No more artificial limits on the length of file descriptions
- No more 32-bit (4GB) credit/file-length limit
- Discussion threads on uploaded files may be possible
- Up/down voting on uploaded files may be possible
- More file list sorting options
- Faster file name/description searching and listing

I know that file transfers are not a major motivating factor for BBS users these days, but still, it's something we have and use and I want it to work better (like you). So that's what I'm working on and would be happy to discuss your ideas or concerns.

digital man

This Is Spinal Tap quote #1:
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On Tue, 17 Jul 2018, Digital Man wrote:

Here's sort of my plan and current state:

1. SMBLIB/SMBUTIL/CHKSMB/FIXSMB updated for filebases, done
2. FILELIST utility updated, done
3. ADDFILES utility updated, in-progress
4. DELFILES utility updated, to-do
5. SBBS internal file access functions updated, in-progress
6. New JS FileBase class, to-do
7. FTP server update, to-do
7. Update any legacy JS or other mods that access the old filebases, to-do

well will there be a program to convert from old file system to new file system?

- No more artificial limits on the length of file descriptions

yay....

- No more 32-bit (4GB) credit/file-length limit

what you mean by this? you mean will be 2 version of sbbs for 32 bit and
64 bit?

- Discussion threads on uploaded files may be possible

nice idea!!! :-)

- Up/down voting on uploaded files may be possible

woot!!!!

- More file list sorting options

cool!!!

- Faster file name/description searching and listing

cool...

---
* Synchronet * Internetking BBS - inetk.synchro.net
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

On 07-17-18 02:02, Digital Man wrote to All <=-

(or as I would usually write, "Long filename support").

While files are definitely not a major issue for me - I was never a file based sysop back in the day either, messages were my thing, these changes look awesome. :)


... My Brain has too many tabs open...
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Re: Long file name support
By: Digital Man to All on Tue Jul 17 2018 02:02 am

The obvious improvement will be with the stored filenames and some issues with the old 8.3->long filename resolutions on Windows will go away as well (in some cases, the Micros~1 shortened filename can change even though the long filename did not).

However, this will address other "issues" and pave the way to cool new features:
- No more artificial limits on the length of file descriptions
- No more 32-bit (4GB) credit/file-length limit
- Discussion threads on uploaded files may be possible
- Up/down voting on uploaded files may be possible
- More file list sorting options
- Faster file name/description searching and listing

I know that file transfers are not a major motivating factor for BBS users these days, but still, it's something we have and use and I want it to work better (like you). So that's what I'm working on and would be happy to discuss your ideas or concerns.

Those would be some cool features to have, even if file transfers aren't used much on BBSes these days. Users do still sometimes download files from my BBS - Sometimes I'll log in and see a couple files were downloaded, and sometimes I'll see that a whole bunch of files were downloaded, usually from some of the BBS-related file areas I have on my BBS.

A JavaScript interface to the file areas is one thing I think has been missing from Synchronet, and I think that would be good to have (along with the long filename support).

Nightfox

---
* Synchronet * Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: Re: Long file name support
By: Internetking to Digital Man on Tue Jul 17 2018 02:57 am

well will there be a program to convert from old file system to new file system?

Yes. I'm using a modified version of v4upgrade for this today, but I'll probably add it to exec/update.js when this gets rolled out. I always strive to preserve existing data/configurations.

- No more 32-bit (4GB) credit/file-length limit

what you mean by this? you mean will be 2 version of sbbs for 32 bit and
64 bit?

No. It means that files that are larger than 4GB can be added to the filebase. Now, transferring those files via traditional ZMODEM won't be possible (ZMODEM has a 32-bit file size limitation), but transferring via FTP and other protocols should be fine.

digital man

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #57:
XON = Transmit On (ASCII 17, Ctrl-Q)
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Re: Long file name support
By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Tue Jul 17 2018 09:21 am

A JavaScript interface to the file areas is one thing I think has been missing from Synchronet, and I think that would be good to have (along with the long filename support).

Agreed. I wasn't going to work on a FileBase class for the old storage method, so I just put it off. In the mean time, Deuce and echicken created some work-around libraries (load/filebase.js and filedir.js) - but those will become redundant/obsolete once this feature is rolled-in/out.

digital man

This Is Spinal Tap quote #22:
David St. Hubbins: Here lies David St. Hubbins... and why not?
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Re: Long file name support
By: Digital Man to All on Tue Jul 17 2018 02:02 am

(or as I would usually write, "Long filename support").

That's good to hear. I've been looking forward to the time when we have this support in SBBS.. :)

Ttyl :-),
Al


... Megahertz: when something is really painful.

---
* Synchronet * The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
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Re: Long file name support
By: Al to Digital Man on Wed Jul 18 2018 19:22:38

I can't wait for that too...

Marisa
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On Tue, 17 Jul 2018, Digital Man wrote:

- No more 32-bit (4GB) credit/file-length limit

what you mean by this? you mean will be 2 version of sbbs for 32 bit and
64 bit?

No. It means that files that are larger than 4GB can be added to the

filebase.

Now, transferring those files via traditional ZMODEM won't be possible

(ZMODEM

has a 32-bit file size limitation), but transferring via FTP and other protocols should be fine.

sp if a user try to use zmodem, etc that limits to 32bit file size, it
will block from using it and ask to use ftp and other protocols?

---
* Synchronet * Internetking BBS - inetk.synchro.net
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: Re: Long file name support
By: Internetking to Digital Man on Thu Jul 19 2018 03:31 pm

On Tue, 17 Jul 2018, Digital Man wrote:

- No more 32-bit (4GB) credit/file-length limit

what you mean by this? you mean will be 2 version of sbbs for 32 bit and 64 bit?

No. It means that files that are larger than 4GB can be added to the filebase.
Now, transferring those files via traditional ZMODEM won't be possible (ZMODEM
has a 32-bit file size limitation), but transferring via FTP and other protocols should be fine.

sp if a user try to use zmodem, etc that limits to 32bit file size, it
will block from using it and ask to use ftp and other protocols?

No, there's no built in detection of > 4GB file sizes right now. In fact, at least in the Windows build, they're not supported at all.

digital man

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #30:
IP = Internet Protocol
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Digital wrote:

I was originally planning on waiting for SBBS v4 to roll-out the filebase replacement, but I changed my mind and have been prodded into working on "sooner" than that by some persistent sbbs/Linux sysop(s) - and I agree: it's long overdue and more urgent than most of the other v4-slated changes.

Really?

---
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Re: Re: Long file name support
By: Nelgin to Digital Man on Sat Jul 21 2018 02:41 am

I was originally planning on waiting for SBBS v4 to roll-out the
filebase replacement, but I changed my mind and have been prodded into
working on "sooner" than that by some persistent sbbs/Linux sysop(s) -
and I agree: it's long overdue and more urgent than most of the other
v4-slated changes.

Really?

I think I would agree with DM. Even with Synchronet for Windows, long filename support seems incomplete. It displays the 8.3-format filename on the left, though it displays the long filename on the right. And a JavaScript interface to the file areas is basically missing in Synchronet (echicken and Deuce have created JavaScript libraries to add some level of JS support, but it's not something that is built into Synchronet yet).

Nightfox

---
* Synchronet * Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Nightfox wrote:

Re: Re: Long file name support
By: Nelgin to Digital Man on Sat Jul 21 2018 02:41 am

I was originally planning on waiting for SBBS v4 to roll-out the
filebase replacement, but I changed my mind and have been prodded into
working on "sooner" than that by some persistent sbbs/Linux sysop(s) -
and I agree: it's long overdue and more urgent than most of the other
v4-slated changes.

Really?

I think I would agree with DM. Even with Synchronet for Windows, long

filename

support seems incomplete. It displays the 8.3-format filename on the left, though it displays the long filename on the right. And a JavaScript

interface

to the file areas is basically missing in Synchronet (echicken and Deuce have created JavaScript libraries to add some level of JS support, but it's not something that is built into Synchronet yet).

My response was into DM being prodded into working on it sooner.

---
* Synchronet * End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: Re: Long file name support
By: Nelgin to Digital Man on Sat Jul 21 2018 02:41 am

Digital wrote:

I was originally planning on waiting for SBBS v4 to roll-out the filebase replacement, but I changed my mind and have been prodded into working on "sooner" than that by some persistent sbbs/Linux sysop(s) - and I agree: it's long overdue and more urgent than most of the other v4-slated changes.

Really?

Yes.

digital man

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Re: Long file name support
By: Digital Man to All on Tue Jul 17 2018 02:02 am

Update:

1. SMBLIB/SMBUTIL/CHKSMB/FIXSMB updated for filebases, done
2. FILELIST utility updated, done
3. ADDFILES utility updated, done
4. DELFILES utility updated, done
5. SBBS internal file access functions updated, in-progress
6. New JS FileBase class, to-do
7. FTP server update, to-do
8. Update any legacy JS or other mods that access the old filebases, to-do

I forgot before:

9. DUPEFIND utility updated, done

Now while updating the SBBS internal file access functions, I'm updating some of the oldest (25+ year) code in sbbs and in many cases the code would really have to be rewritten to retain the existing functionality. So I've come to the conclusion that some obscure file transfer features are probably just not worth the time right now and are going to initially be removed and may never return (depending on demand):
- bi-directional file transfers
- user-to-user file transfers (these are not email attachments)
- temp file directory (extraction of archives, viewing embedded files, etc.)
- offline directories
- sequential storage devices
- QWK-based file requests / attachments

If you use any of these features, speak up and I'll make a note to try to re-write or retain that functionality. I'm pretty sure nobody has used these (once cherished) features in many years now that connectivity and bandwidth are so prevalent.

But, as anyone familiar with the Synchronet source code can attest: I don't remove features/functionality lightly! So I figured it was prudent to first make an official release of v3.17 (withOUT the new filebase/LFN support). Then I won't feel so bad about removing or breaking features in the development code in CVS.

The release is planned to be dubbed v3.17b (no, the 'b' does not stand for 'beta') with a full installer/upgrader for Windows users. *nix sysops really won't need to change anything about how they update, if they do. I'll tag the release in CVS and then soon after begin checking in code for v3.18 (introducing the new filebase/LFN support).

So please, test the current development build (v3.17a) and if you have any bug reports, now's the time. Thanks,

digital man

This Is Spinal Tap quote #44:
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Re: Long file name support
By: Digital Man to All on Tue Jul 24 2018 02:08 am

- temp file directory (extraction of archives, viewing embedded files,

I've wondered if it would be possible to view text files within an archive from the file listing view?

- QWK-based file requests / attachments

I'd hate to loose this feature but files are easily available from the transfer menu or ftp these days so it's probably not used as much as it has been in the past.

Ttyl :-),
Al


... Brain: the apparatus with which we think we think

---
* Synchronet * The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
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Re: Long file name support
By: Al to Digital Man on Tue Jul 24 2018 03:33 am

Re: Long file name support
By: Digital Man to All on Tue Jul 24 2018 02:08 am

- temp file directory (extraction of archives, viewing embedded files,

I've wondered if it would be possible to view text files within an archive from the file listing view?

Yes, you can do that now. Not sure if you will in the future however. :-)

- QWK-based file requests / attachments

I'd hate to loose this feature but files are easily available from the transfer menu or ftp these days so it's probably not used as much as it has been in the past.

Are you using that feature?

digital man

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Re: Long file name support
By: Digital Man to Al on Tue Jul 24 2018 04:21 am

I'd hate to loose this feature but files are easily available from the
transfer menu or ftp these days so it's probably not used as much as
it has been in the past.

Are you using that feature?

Not these days no. I have used it in the past when you could never be sure when you would get a connection with a BBS and online time was limited.

We might be past those days now.. :)

Ttyl :-),
Al


... Help! I've fallen and can't reach my beer!

---
* Synchronet * The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: Long file name support
By: Digital Man to All on Tue Jul 24 2018 02:08 am

- temp file directory (extraction of archives, viewing embedded files, etc.)

This would be a shame to lose permanently. It's not something I use often, but it is something I've used in the past and likely would again.

DaiTengu

... Humour is emotional chaos remembered in tranquillity.

---
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Re: Long file name support
By: DaiTengu to Digital Man on Tue Jul 24 2018 08:26 am

Re: Long file name support
By: Digital Man to All on Tue Jul 24 2018 02:08 am

- temp file directory (extraction of archives, viewing embedded files, etc.)

This would be a shame to lose permanently. It's not something I use often, but it is something I've used in the past and likely would again.

Okay, noted.

digital man

Synchronet "Real Fact" #1:
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Re: Long file name support
By: Digital Man to All on Tue Jul 24 2018 02:08:58

Wow, really looking forward to this...

Marisa
--- https://AmigaCity.xyz - Portal for the Amiga - More than 2,600 free DLs
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On 07-24-18 05:24, Al wrote to Digital Man <=-

Re: Long file name support
By: Digital Man to Al on Tue Jul 24 2018 04:21 am

I'd hate to loose this feature but files are easily available from the
transfer menu or ftp these days so it's probably not used as much as
it has been in the past.

Are you using that feature?

Not these days no. I have used it in the past when you could never be
sure when you would get a connection with a BBS and online time was limited.

We might be past those days now.. :)

You obviously have better mobile coverage than I have, though even here, where the BBS is on the same LAN, I prefer offline mail for the better user interface. I'd also consider running a point, except there's too many devices to hop between nowadays. :)


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Re: Long file name support
By: Digital Man to All on Tue Jul 24 2018 02:08:58

Wow, really looking forward to this...

Long name support will be a great addition to Synchronet.
I feel like the 8 character file name with the 3 character
extention is long out-dated and more modern file needs to
be supported. Perhaps make it an option.

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