• Laying out message and file areas

    From Simulant@1:103/705 to All on Tue Mar 6 06:59:02 2018
    I just wondered if Sub boards and file areas can have Sub boards and Sub file areas within them?

    Maybe I'm used to Forums too much these days so it just seems like a thing? I'm trying to just get the message and file areas laid out nice before they are used but not sure of the best approach to categorise msgs and files...

    Thanks for any tips :)

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  • From KK4QBN@1:103/705 to Simulant on Tue Mar 6 07:34:38 2018
    Re: Laying out message and file areas
    By: Simulant to All on Tue Mar 06 2018 06:59:02

    I just wondered if Sub boards and file areas can have Sub boards and Sub file areas within them?

    I don;t quite understand the question, but if you are asking if you can embed a file area in a message subboard or vice/versa .. no.. you can however do some crafty menu editing to list the message subboard and corrospoding file area on the same menu.

    Maybe I'm used to Forums too much these days so it just seems like a thing? I'm trying to just get the message and file areas laid out nice before they are used but not sure of the best approach to categorise msgs and files...


    I think you need to study a lot of the JS menu shells and other JS utils, and even the BAJA ones too.. they are very powerful, and you can do pretty much anything you llle.

    --

    Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
    KK4QBN BBS

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  • From Digital Man@1:103/705 to Simulant on Tue Mar 6 14:19:33 2018
    Re: Laying out message and file areas
    By: Simulant to All on Tue Mar 06 2018 06:59 am

    I just wondered if Sub boards and file areas can have Sub boards and Sub file areas within them?

    Sub-boards are organized into message groups: http://synchro.net/docs/message_section.html#SettingUpMessageBase

    File directories are orgnized into file libraries: http://synchro.net/docs/file_section.html

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #40:
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  • From Vk3jed@1:103/705 to Simulant on Wed Mar 7 08:23:00 2018
    Simulant wrote to All <=-

    @VIA: VERT/SIMULANT
    I just wondered if Sub boards and file areas can have Sub boards and
    Sub file areas within them?

    No, you have groups, then each group has its subs. But you can't have groups within groups to my knowledge.

    Maybe I'm used to Forums too much these days so it just seems like a thing? I'm trying to just get the message and file areas laid out nice before they are used but not sure of the best approach to categorise
    msgs and files...

    I usually categorise my messages by network, but that's certainly not the only way to do it. And you poor thing - web forums, I detest them. Give me a good BBS anyway, with offline mail. :)


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  • From Nightfox@1:103/705 to Vk3jed on Tue Mar 6 15:54:15 2018
    Re: Re: Laying out message and file areas
    By: Vk3jed to Simulant on Wed Mar 07 2018 08:23 am

    only way to do it. And you poor thing - web forums, I detest them. Give me a good BBS anyway, with offline mail. :)

    I don't think there's a clear distinction between web forums and BBS message areas. Synchronet's message areas, in particular, seem organized pretty much the same way as a web forum could organize its areas, and the web interfaces to Synchronet (echicken's ecweb and the older Runescape web interface) make it look a lot like other web forums out there. And with the recent addition of voting and user avatars, Synchronet's message areas are even closer in features to other web forum software available.

    Nightfox

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Nightfox on Wed Mar 7 17:20:00 2018
    Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I don't think there's a clear distinction between web forums and BBS message areas. Synchronet's message areas, in particular, seem
    organized pretty much the same way as a web forum could organize its areas, and the web interfaces to Synchronet (echicken's ecweb and the older Runescape web interface) make it look a lot like other web forums out there. And with the recent addition of voting and user avatars, Synchronet's message areas are even closer in features to other web
    forum software available.

    And guess how often I use the web interface. :) That said, I do want to upgrade to ecwebv4, because it offers a more forum experience for those who like that sort of thing. :)


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  • From Nightfox@1:103/705 to Tony Langdon on Wed Mar 7 09:33:26 2018
    Re: Re: Laying out message and file areas
    By: Tony Langdon to Nightfox on Wed Mar 07 2018 05:20 pm

    And guess how often I use the web interface. :) That said, I do want to upgrade to ecwebv4, because it offers a more forum experience for those who like that sort of thing. :)

    Sometimes I use the ecweb interface on my smartphone because it's a little easier than using a telnet interface on a smartphone. ecwebv4 also does a good job of looking good both on a mobile device and a desktop PC.

    Nightfox

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  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Digital Man on Wed Mar 7 10:43:26 2018

    On 2018 Mar 06 14:19:32, you wrote to Simulant:

    I just wondered if Sub boards and file areas can have Sub boards and
    Sub file areas within them?

    Sub-boards are organized into message groups: http://synchro.net/docs/message_section.html#SettingUpMessageBase

    i think he's asking about groups within groups and

    File directories are orgnized into file libraries: http://synchro.net/docs/file_section.html

    libraries within libraries...

    plus being able to specify an area belongs to more than one (sub)group is a plus :)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
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  • From Digital Man@1:103/705 to mark lewis on Wed Mar 7 11:11:27 2018
    Re: Laying out message and file areas
    By: mark lewis to Digital Man on Wed Mar 07 2018 10:43 am


    On 2018 Mar 06 14:19:32, you wrote to Simulant:

    I just wondered if Sub boards and file areas can have Sub boards and
    Sub file areas within them?

    Sub-boards are organized into message groups: http://synchro.net/docs/message_section.html#SettingUpMessageBase

    i think he's asking about groups within groups and

    Maybe. But we don't support that.

    File directories are orgnized into file libraries: http://synchro.net/docs/file_section.html

    libraries within libraries...

    That neither.

    plus being able to specify an area belongs to more than one (sub)group is a plus :)

    You can kind of do that use duplicate internal codes, but I can't think of a good reason why one should do that.

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #4:
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  • From Nightfox@1:103/705 to mark lewis on Wed Mar 7 12:45:04 2018
    Re: Laying out message and file areas
    By: mark lewis to Digital Man on Wed Mar 07 2018 10:43 am

    plus being able to specify an area belongs to more than one (sub)group is a plus :)

    I've had a hard time thinking of a scenario where that might be beneficial. For instance, often times, message networks have sub-boards with the same name and intent as other message networks (such as a 'General', 'Sysops Only', etc.), but you generally want to keep those separate and also avoid cross-posting messages from one of the sub-boards into another. And IMO it makes sense keeping them separate too - If they all had the same messages, then there would not be much advantage in having a separate message network. For sub-board names which are common on different message networks, I still tend to think of them separately because they usually reach a different audience of users. People might have access to one but not the other. Also, some people tend to prefer using certain message networks over the others (for instance, I've heard many people complaining about people arguing on FidoNet, so they tend to read and post on other message networks instead).

    If you did want a message sub-board to exist in more than one group, a workaround in Synchronet would be to create the sub-boards separately but ensure they have the same internal code. But that's more due to a side-effect of Synchronet's internal code system. Also, your message groups may have an internal code prefix which helps avoid that..

    Nightfox

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Nightfox on Thu Mar 8 07:28:00 2018
    Nightfox wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    Sometimes I use the ecweb interface on my smartphone because it's a
    little easier than using a telnet interface on a smartphone. ecwebv4
    also does a good job of looking good both on a mobile device and a
    desktop PC.

    There is that, though I have Bluewave on my phone. ;) Out here, once you get out of town, one can't assume there will be a network connection. Even the best telcos have a lot of black spots out in the bush. Besides, I don't like being tied to the network for messaging, the latency and other overheads really get in the way. :(




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  • From Simulant@1:103/705 to mark lewis on Wed Mar 7 21:56:32 2018
    Re: Laying out message and file areas
    By: mark lewis to Digital Man on Wed Mar 07 2018 10:43 am

    i think he's asking about groups within groups and

    File directories are orgnized into file libraries: http://synchro.net/docs/file_section.html

    libraries within libraries...

    yeah that was just what I meant. Like a directory/folder structure...

    The Amstrad BBS - amstrad.simulant.uk

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  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nightfox on Wed Mar 7 22:44:54 2018

    On 2018 Mar 07 12:45:04, you wrote to me:

    plus being able to specify an area belongs to more than one
    (sub)group is a plus :)

    I've had a hard time thinking of a scenario where that might be
    beneficial.

    my RA setup has just such a thing... in the file areas, the NEW UPLOADS area is
    in all groups... there's a general BBS group and there's specific BBS software groups... each of the BBS software areas are listed in the General BBS Software
    group as well as in the specific BBS software group... the specific BBS software groups also contain other areas with doors or tools for that specific BBS package...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... If you really want to be depressed, weigh yourself in grams.
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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Nightfox on Thu Mar 8 15:18:00 2018
    Nightfox wrote to mark lewis <=-

    If you did want a message sub-board to exist in more than one group, a workaround in Synchronet would be to create the sub-boards separately
    but ensure they have the same internal code. But that's more due to a side-effect of Synchronet's internal code system. Also, your message groups may have an internal code prefix which helps avoid that..

    Yeah, I tend to use prefixes, so doubling up would be almost impossible for me.
    But I can only think of a few corner cases, where you want a generic message area (probably a local one, or one from one of a set of closely related nets) visible in multiple groups.


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  • From Nightfox@1:103/705 to mark lewis on Thu Mar 8 09:33:30 2018
    Re: Laying out message and file areas
    By: mark lewis to Nightfox on Wed Mar 07 2018 10:44 pm

    plus being able to specify an area belongs to more than one
    (sub)group is a plus :)

    I've had a hard time thinking of a scenario where that might be
    beneficial.

    my RA setup has just such a thing... in the file areas, the NEW UPLOADS area is in all groups... there's a general BBS group and there's specific BBS software groups... each of the BBS software areas are listed in the General BBS Software group as well as in the specific BBS software group... the specific BBS software groups also contain other areas with doors or tools for that specific BBS package...

    I'm still not sure that makes sense for a file area layout. Why wouldn't a "new uploads" directory just be in an "uploads" file group? And I'd think specific BBS software areas would make the most sense just in the group for that specific BBS software, and general BBS software areas in just the general group. I'd think making the same areas available multiple times could make things a little confusing..

    Nightfox

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  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nightfox on Fri Mar 9 04:09:56 2018

    On 2018 Mar 08 09:33:30, you wrote to me:

    my RA setup has just such a thing... in the file areas, the NEW
    UPLOADS area is in all groups... there's a general BBS group and
    there's specific BBS software groups... each of the BBS software
    areas are listed in the General BBS Software group as well as in the
    specific BBS software group... the specific BBS software groups also
    contain other areas with doors or tools for that specific BBS
    package...

    I'm still not sure that makes sense for a file area layout. Why
    wouldn't a "new uploads" directory just be in an "uploads" file group?

    because we don't have an uploads group... there's no need for one since there's
    only one uploads directory... we place it in all groups because it is the only upload area on the system... some systems allow users to upload directly into the destination directory but that requires that they categorize the same way the operator does... some systems have multiple upload directories per network or group... we just don't see any need for multiple upload areas... seperating the files on some criteria is easy enough... surely much easier than goin around behind the users and straightening up after them... we're not one of those systems that has a files operator that does only files organizing like some systems have/had...

    And I'd think specific BBS software areas would make the most sense
    just in the group for that specific BBS software, and general BBS
    software areas in just the general group. I'd think making the same
    areas available multiple times could make things a little confusing..

    just like anything else, one you get used to it, it makes perfect sense... some
    folks are much more OCD than others... some folks are just lazy... some stuff all files into one area and leave it to the dogs to decide what's confusing and
    what isn't ;)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
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  • From Nightfox@1:103/705 to mark lewis on Fri Mar 9 09:46:51 2018
    Re: Laying out message and file areas
    By: mark lewis to Nightfox on Fri Mar 09 2018 04:09 am

    is the only upload area on the system... some systems allow users to upload directly into the destination directory but that requires that they categorize the same way the operator does... some systems have multiple

    Most of the time, I think users can figure out the best place (or at least a good place) for a file to go. A Synchronet utility, for instance, probably isn't going to go anywhere else besides a Synchronet utility file area. :) Sometimes it can be a little vague though - I've seen some software packages that include a version of the program for multiple platforms (it might include the DOS version, OS/2 version, Win32 console version, etc.), so those could be difficult to decide which file area to put it in..

    Nightfox

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  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nightfox on Fri Mar 9 15:23:14 2018

    On 2018 Mar 09 09:46:50, you wrote to me:

    is the only upload area on the system... some systems allow users to
    upload directly into the destination directory but that requires that
    they categorize the same way the operator does... some systems have
    multiple

    Most of the time, I think users can figure out the best place (or at
    least a good place) for a file to go.

    not so much in our 30+ years... some do, yes... after a period of learning... we take the easy way out and have one directory where all uploads go... it appears in all our groups... it makes maintenance easier to have to only look in one place and move the files to another... it is a hell of a lot easier then
    having to traipse all over the file base looking for new files uploaded since some date and then deciding if they are in the right place or needing to be moved... plus it is easier for us to flip a switch and not allow any downloads from the uploads directory if we need to...

    A Synchronet utility, for instance, probably isn't going to go
    anywhere else besides a Synchronet utility file area. :)

    true... now consider a utility like Allfix... it works with certain BBSes directly without having to use a files.bbs shim to talk to a proprietary tool... if Allfix were to support SBBS, we would have its area listed in the General BBS Utilities group as well as the specific groups for the BBSes it is known to work directly with... this way, RA folks can find it in the RA BBS Utilities group and folks running unsupported BBSes can find it in the General BBS Utilities group so they can use it like SBBS folks do now with files.bbs shims...


    NOTE: we are not using "shim" in a derogatory manner, here... we know that on some BBSes, files.bbs /is/ the database for that area... on other BBSes, they have a proprietary database format and most generally allow importing and exporting of files.bbs to update that area... this to facilitate tools that can't talk directory to those proprietary database files...

    Sometimes it can be a little vague though - I've seen some software packages that include a version of the program for multiple platforms
    (it might include the DOS version, OS/2 version, Win32 console
    version, etc.), so those could be difficult to decide which file area
    to put it in..

    that's why you put them in one area and list the area in different groups... for example, using Allfix again, all the various flavors of Allfix are distributed in one area... if you have groups for various operating systems, you could list that Allfix area in each of those OS groups... /if/ groups within groups are allowed, you could have a tree like this...

    DOS Software Group
    DOS BBSes Group
    RA BBS area
    RA UTILS area
    Allfix area
    DOS Mailer Group
    FD Mailer area
    Binkleyterm Mailer area
    LNX Software Group
    LNX BBSes Group
    SBBS area
    SBBS Utils area
    MBSE BBS area
    Mystic BBS area
    Mystic Tools area
    Mystic Doors area
    LNX Mailer Group
    Binkd Mailer area
    IREX Mailer area
    OS2 Software Group
    OS2 BBSes Group
    Lora BBS area
    Allfix area
    OS2 Mailer Group
    Binkd Mailer area
    WIN Software Group
    WIN BBSes Group
    SBBS area
    SBBS Utils area
    Mystic BBS area
    Mystic Tools area
    Mystic Doors area
    Allfix area
    WIN Mailer Group
    Argus Mailer area
    Radius Mailer area
    Taurus Mailer area
    Binkd Mailer area
    IREX Mailer area

    this way someone looking strictly for DOS stuff doesn't have to go wading through stuff for other OSes... the only time they would even see stuff for other OSes would be when they looked at something like Binkd, for example, which has binaries for three of the above listed base OS-oriented groups... or Mystic which supports two of them with a third planned... then you have Allfix which supports all four listed OSes... some BBS software allows for file areas trees like this... a lot doesn't... groups are only good for categorizing stuff... sure, one could easily forego groups altogether and just list all areas directly... it is just a logical grouping method, that's all... the actual structure of directories on the disk won't look like this... this is only a logical structure in the BBS...

    yes, we left out MAC, Amiga, *BSD and others in the above example :shrug:

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... God gave us booze to keep the Irish from ruling the World.
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