• another step in the right direction

    From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Silent Majority on Fri Nov 11 01:34:00 2016
    -={ 2016-11-11 01:34:42.404980015+00:00 }=-

    Hey Silent!

    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste starts tothings:/mnt/archives/clfs-aarch64/linux-4.8.7$ find . -name bcm2837-rpi-3-b.dtb
    ./arch/arm64/boot/dts/broadcom/bcm2837-rpi-3-b.dtb
    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste ends

    Built with the current aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu cross compiler (gcc v6.2.0) resident on a x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu host with the same gcc version.

    Also worth mentioning is that the linux-4.8.7 source is unpatched and was obtained from kernel.org so it hasn't been altered in any way shape or form.

    For the curious; tothings is the unpriviledged hacker guy on the x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu host who built the aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu toolchain and isn't afraid to use it.

    As per usual, time will tell.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Lofd|adum sceal in m|ag|+a gehw|are man ge|+eon.
    By praiseworthy deeds shall one prosper among peoples everywhere.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Maurice Kinal on Thu Nov 10 22:35:52 2016
    Hello Maurice,

    On 11 Nov 16 01:34, Maurice Kinal wrote to Silent Majority:

    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste starts tothings:/mnt/archives/clfs-aarch64/linux-4.8.7$ find . -name bcm2837-rpi-3-b.dtb
    ./arch/arm64/boot/dts/broadcom/bcm2837-rpi-3-b.dtb
    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste ends

    Built with the current aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu cross compiler (gcc v6.2.0) resident on a x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu host with the same
    gcc version.

    Also worth mentioning is that the linux-4.8.7 source is unpatched and
    was obtained from kernel.org so it hasn't been altered in any way
    shape or form.

    For the curious; tothings is the unpriviledged hacker guy on the x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu host who built the
    aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu toolchain and isn't afraid to use it.

    As per usual, time will tell.

    Methinks you need to make a step-by-step instruction set for other people interested that don't want the headaches. :)

    Have you done anything else with it? Like tried to build any useful programs?

    I may indeed be stuck using 32 bit for now, as I do like a package manager available to me. I've never gotten the courage to do any kind of LFS setup whatsoever. Well, that and I don't really care for compiling everything any more. Obviously compiling things like the husky stuff and binkd or whatever, but not my entire system. That just takes too dang long. :)

    This reminds me, I should get over to Amazon and get my 2nd RPi3 for the whole-house media server.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "He who laughs last, thinks slowest."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Nicholas Boel on Fri Nov 11 05:13:52 2016
    -={ 2016-11-10 23:13:52.500657531-06:00 }=-

    Hey Nicholas!

    Methinks you need to make a step-by-step instruction

    Already started and as of this writing have basic instructions for the cross-compiler and now a kernel build using the cross-compiler. However the more important question of whether or not it actually works has yet to be answered, even if only a qemu 'boot' until an actual raspi3 can be liberated for the cause. I figure January if things continue as they seem to be.

    people interested that don't want the headaches. :)

    I think they may be in for a rude awakening. We'll see. One step at a time but if you REALLY want me to post what I have so far I could do so in the TUXPOWER echo and maybe start some traffic there. It's been quiet there recently and given everything is bash scripted it would look good over there.

    I may indeed be stuck using 32 bit for now

    Near as I can tell you are not alone. I have yet to run across anyone claiming
    pure 64 bit on any arm64 platform, nevermind raspi3. It might turn out that I am the first and the ONLY one willing to go out on that particular limb ... if indeed I end up on that particular limb. I haven't committed. ;-)

    Have you done anything else with it? Like tried to build any
    useful programs?

    Nope. In fact the the first kernel I build crashed hard using qemu-system-aarch64. I plan to test this latest one soon, maybe tonight but probably tommorrow.

    I should get over to Amazon and get my 2nd RPi3 for the
    whole-house media server.

    I have yet to get a first one. However we're on totally different wavelengths so I doubt you need my interference for your plans. If I commit then my plan is to get a working pure 64 bit gcc and friends envoroment working on it ... if
    indeed there is an 'it'. I am in no rush.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Nafa|# |anig mann freonda to fela.
    No one can have too many friends.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Maurice Kinal on Fri Nov 11 00:22:16 2016
    Hello Maurice,

    On 11 Nov 16 05:13, Maurice Kinal wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    I may indeed be stuck using 32 bit for now

    Near as I can tell you are not alone. I have yet to run across anyone claiming pure 64 bit on any arm64 platform, nevermind raspi3. It
    might turn out that I am the first and the ONLY one willing to go out
    on that particular limb ... if indeed I end up on that particular
    limb. I haven't committed. ;-)

    From what I've seen the ODROID-C2 has some working 64bit stuff out there. ArchLinuxARM being one of them (and the only one they support at the moment).

    I have yet to get a first one. However we're on totally different wavelengths so I doubt you need my interference for your plans. If I commit then my plan is to get a working pure 64 bit gcc and friends envoroment working on it ... if indeed there is an 'it'. I am in no
    rush.

    Already done. 5-8 business days. :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Nicholas Boel on Fri Nov 11 07:00:58 2016
    -={ 2016-11-11 01:00:58.185476567-06:00 }=-

    Hey Nicholas!

    From what I've seen the ODROID-C2 has some working 64bit stuff out
    there.

    CentOS-7-aarch64-rootfs-1606 looks to be a possibility for odroid-c2 and pine64. It is a multilib enviroment and comes packed with gcc-5 and friends. That one seems to be the winner at the moment although I still haven't abandoned the custom raspi3 idea ... yet.

    ArchLinuxARM

    I heard a rumour that the 64 bit version was being abandoned. Maybe they are putting it on hold until aarch64 matures a bit. If so I can understand why.

    5-8 business days.

    Heh, heh. Like I previously said, way too much fun. There ought to be a law.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... To nawihte ne hopa|#, se to hame ne hige|#.
    He hopes for nothing, who does not think about home.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Maurice Kinal on Fri Nov 11 01:43:26 2016
    Hello Maurice,

    On 11 Nov 16 07:00, Maurice Kinal wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    ArchLinuxARM

    I heard a rumour that the 64 bit version was being abandoned. Maybe
    they are putting it on hold until aarch64 matures a bit. If so I can understand why.

    Check back on some previous messages. There's a link to setting up the ODROID-C2 with the 64bit version on archlinuxarm.org. So, it's definitely not abandoned, I just don't know if they're going to make an actual install package
    for the Rpi3, since the ODROID-C2 has 2gb ram, whereas the Rpi3 has only 1gb.

    5-8 business days.

    Heh, heh. Like I previously said, way too much fun. There ought to
    be a law.

    If they made that law I'd break it, multiple times! :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Nicholas Boel on Fri Nov 11 17:21:16 2016
    -={ 2016-11-11 11:21:17.246505230-06:00 }=-

    Hey Nicholas!

    Check back on some previous messages.

    If you mean ArchLinuxARM-aarch64-latest I already have it. At the moment I lack a proper target for it but no matter as it lacks gcc and friends so as a candidate for development there isn't the tools to kickstart anything.

    As for the latest kernel built using the cross compiler I am heartened to see that stock kernel source (no patching) looks to be working as far as the raspi3
    and arm64 is concerned. Unfortunetly it won't work with qemu due to lack of proper machine emulation.

    Can't win them all.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Seo nyd|+earf feala l|are|#.
    Necessity teaches many things.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Maurice Kinal on Fri Nov 11 12:15:26 2016
    Hello Maurice,

    On 11 Nov 16 17:21, Maurice Kinal wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    Check back on some previous messages.

    If you mean ArchLinuxARM-aarch64-latest I already have it. At the
    moment I lack a proper target for it but no matter as it lacks gcc and friends so as a candidate for development there isn't the tools to kickstart anything.

    I would assume it has the package manager (pacman) though. Once installed, You can do "pacman -S gcc" and it should install it.

    As for the latest kernel built using the cross compiler I am heartened
    to see that stock kernel source (no patching) looks to be working as
    far as the raspi3 and arm64 is concerned. Unfortunetly it won't work
    with qemu due to lack of proper machine emulation.

    What do you need qemu for? Are you trying to keep up with your DOS-think crowd?
    :)

    Can't win them all.

    Did you receive my netmail?

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Nicholas Boel on Fri Nov 11 18:35:28 2016
    -={ 2016-11-11 12:35:29.362608649-06:00 }=-

    Hey Nicholas!

    What do you need qemu for? Are you trying to keep up with your
    DOS-think crowd? :)

    Heh, heh. Not really. I just lack an arm machine at the moment and thought qemu-system-aarch64 would act as a standin for it. No such luck but I doubt either of us find this surprising ... given the qoute above. ;-)

    Did you receive my netmail?

    Yes. I sent a direct reply to it. I suspect an incompatible pktheader but the
    netmail reply will tell the tale. I have been using a 2.2 pktheader for awhile
    now and it did work with all concerned up to now. It still works to the Vancouver link.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Nafa|# |anig mann freonda to fela.
    No one can have too many friends.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Maurice Kinal on Fri Nov 11 13:03:24 2016
    Hello Maurice,

    On 11 Nov 16 18:35, Maurice Kinal wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    Yes. I sent a direct reply to it. I suspect an incompatible
    pktheader but the netmail reply will tell the tale. I have been using
    a 2.2 pktheader for awhile now and it did work with all concerned up
    to now. It still works to the Vancouver link.

    Yep. There it sits marked as 'bad' in my inbound. I don't think hpt supports type 2.2 packets after sifting through the docs either. :/

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Nicholas Boel on Fri Nov 11 19:42:26 2016
    -={ 2016-11-11 13:42:26.669687906-06:00 }=-

    Hey Nicholas!

    I don't think hpt supports type 2.2 packets after sifting through
    the docs either. :/

    It was working up to a couple days ago. :-/

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Wind by|# on lyfte swiftust, |+unar by|# |+ragum hludast.
    Wind in the sky is swiftest, thunder is at times the loudest.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Maurice Kinal on Sat Nov 12 09:57:20 2016
    Hello Maurice,

    On 11 Nov 16 19:42, Maurice Kinal wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    I don't think hpt supports type 2.2 packets after sifting through
    the docs either. :/

    It was working up to a couple days ago. :-/

    That's why I had asked. It only seems to be a couple specific messages. This one was obviously fine, and processed accordingly.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Nicholas Boel on Sat Nov 12 18:03:08 2016
    -={ 2016-11-12 12:03:08.411157271-06:00 }=-

    Hey Nicholas!

    It only seems to be a couple specific messages. This one was
    obviously fine, and processed accordingly

    That is because I switched back to the old route once I noticed the change in the pkts I get from you.

    This reply is via the old route.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... G|a|# a wyrd swa hio scel.
    Fate ever goes as it must.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:261/38 to Nicholas Boel on Sat Nov 12 13:26:14 2016
    Hey Nicholas!

    That's why I had asked. It only seems to be a couple specific messages. This one was obviously fine, and processed accordingly.

    This makes 3 replies to the above message. Let's see which ones make it all the way.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-2
    * Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:261/38 to Maurice Kinal on Sat Nov 12 13:27:58 2016
    -={ 2016-11-12 12:03:08.411157271-06:00 }=-
    Hey Nicholas!
    It only seems to be a couple specific messages. This one was
    obviously fine, and processed accordingly
    That is because I switched back to the old route once I noticed the change in the pkts I get from you.
    This reply is via the old route.
    Life is good,
    Maurice
    ... G-|-# a wyrd swa hio scel.
    Fate ever goes as it must.

    The above made it to here.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-2
    * Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Maurice Kinal on Sat Nov 12 19:03:14 2016
    -={ 2016-11-12 11:03:15.796901273-08:00 }=-

    Hey Maurice!

    This makes 3 replies to the above message.

    The above found it's way to both my feeds as it should be. It beat the odds since we both know it isn't always the case.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Wes |+u |+inum yldrum arf|ast symle, f|agerwyrde.
    Be respectful to your elders always, speaking fair words.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Maurice Kinal on Sat Nov 12 19:06:38 2016
    -={ 2016-11-12 11:06:39.540411023-08:00 }=-

    Hey Maurice!

    The above made it to here.

    Ditto. Both feeds too as it should be.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Treow sceal on eorle, wisdom on were.
    Loyalty belongs in a warrior, wisdom in a man.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:261/38 to Maurice Kinal on Sat Nov 12 14:54:10 2016
    since we both know it isn't always the case.

    Yep. What are we betting that neither of the others makes it to the other?

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-2
    * Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Maurice Kinal on Sat Nov 12 20:15:54 2016
    -={ 2016-11-12 12:15:55.762589140-08:00 }=-

    Hey Maurice!

    What are we betting

    A bottle of 15 year old scotch.

    From this perspective I cannot lose.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Weard sete|#, se |+e w|accendum were|#.
    He who guards against the watchmen sets a guard.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Maurice Kinal on Sat Nov 12 20:35:56 2016
    -={ 2016-11-12 12:35:56.189967500-08:00 }=-

    Hey Maurice!

    What are we betting that neither of the others makes it to the
    other?

    So far only you are the only one making it across the board ... but then again you already knew this didn't you?

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Gyfena gehwilc underb|ac besih|+.
    Every gift looks backwards.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 13 09:29:38 2016
    Hello Maurice,

    On 12 Nov 16 18:03, Maurice Kinal wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    It only seems to be a couple specific messages. This one was
    obviously fine, and processed accordingly

    That is because I switched back to the old route once I noticed the
    change in the pkts I get from you.

    This reply is via the old route.

    Ah okay. I hadn't realized you could switch it up on the fly.

    Was 2.2 packets ever fully adopted? Or did it ever make it out of proposal? Seems like quite a few softwares don't support it.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 13 09:31:20 2016
    Hello Maurice,

    On 12 Nov 16 13:26, Maurice Kinal wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    This makes 3 replies to the above message. Let's see which ones make
    it all the way.

    This one does as well. I'm fairly certain 2.2 packets open up the headers to allow larger fields, correct? That's most likely why hpt wasn't liking it, as it is stated in hpt's docs that 2+ have 8 character limits on like pkt password
    and whatnot.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 13 09:33:24 2016
    Hello Maurice,

    On 12 Nov 16 20:35, Maurice Kinal wrote to Maurice Kinal:

    What are we betting that neither of the others makes it to the
    other?

    So far only you are the only one making it across the board ... but
    then again you already knew this didn't you?

    Are you sure you don't need a part time job or something? You tend to talk to yourself quite a bit. :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Nicholas Boel on Sun Nov 13 16:32:18 2016
    -={ 2016-11-13 10:32:19.005647283-06:00 }=-

    Hey Nicholas!

    I hadn't realized you could switch it up on the fly.

    Yep. I used to have another path not too long ago. I am beginning to wonder if it was a bad idea to switch it off now. :-/

    Was 2.2 packets ever fully adopted?

    Beats me but it works with every node I've tried it with. You're asking the wrong person as this node doesn't require any version and only uses a few fields in the msg header(s) to store msgs, temporary or otherwise. Local text messages are text messages not unlike email except without much of the headers it requires.

    Seems like quite a few softwares don't support it.

    It was working with yours. Beats me why it now doesn't as I am doing it exactly the same. I did notice that you started zipping msgs destined for me around the same time it broke. Is that the cause? I don't do zip nor support it in any way shape or form.

    You tend to talk to yourself quite a bit.

    If I don't then who will?

    Anyhow I see there are missing messages that didn't make it through the loop and I am unsure if there is anything I can do about it at this end other than to pay myself off with the 15 year old scotch. I am willing to try again with the route through you but don't know what your node now expects from mine.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Sceomiande man sceal in sceade hweorfan; scir in leohte gerise|#.
    A shamed man must go in the shadows; the pure belong in the light.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nicholas Boel on Sun Nov 13 11:44:50 2016

    13 Nov 16 09:29, you wrote to Maurice Kinal:

    Was 2.2 packets ever fully adopted? Or did it ever make it out of proposal? Seems like quite a few softwares don't support it.

    2, 2+ and 2.2 are/were all in common use... many proposals remain as proposals in the library because the desk was swept clear to try to make it easier to work on stuff... they need to be trotted back out and raised, yes... the question is when and how with blindered and stiffling members in the seats...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Swimming: the worse you are at it, the more exercise you get.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nicholas Boel on Sun Nov 13 11:50:20 2016

    13 Nov 16 09:31, you wrote to Maurice Kinal:

    I'm fairly certain 2.2 packets open up the headers to allow larger
    fields, correct?

    no... the header of each format is the same size as the others' header... what was changed was using some positions for other data and dropping some unneeded ones...

    That's most likely why hpt wasn't liking it, as it is stated in hpt's
    docs that 2+ have 8 character limits on like pkt password and whatnot.

    those remain consistent across all three type 2 PKT formats...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... 97.6% or more of my taglines are borrowed. Including this one.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 13 11:16:20 2016
    Hello Maurice,

    On 13 Nov 16 16:32, Maurice Kinal wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    I hadn't realized you could switch it up on the fly.

    Yep. I used to have another path not too long ago. I am beginning to wonder if it was a bad idea to switch it off now. :-/

    If you insist on using type 2.2 packets, then is may very well have been.

    Was 2.2 packets ever fully adopted?

    Seems like quite a few softwares don't support it.

    It was working with yours. Beats me why it now doesn't as I am doing
    it exactly the same. I did notice that you started zipping msgs
    destined for me around the same time it broke. Is that the cause? I don't do zip nor support it in any way shape or form.

    I've recently switched from using my BBS as a mail hub, to running a separate mail hub using hpt as the tosser. While my BBS software did indeed support 2.2 packets, it doesn't look like hpt does.

    Also, I've changed your config to compression type: none.

    There were some small settings I may have missed in the move (like that one). :)

    Anyhow I see there are missing messages that didn't make it through
    the loop and I am unsure if there is anything I can do about it at
    this end other than to pay myself off with the 15 year old scotch. I
    am willing to try again with the route through you but don't know what your node now expects from mine.

    They were stopped here, most likely because they were type 2.2 packets. At the moment my node is expecting type 2+ packets. If I can find something in the documentation that states I can change that, I will most definitely let you know.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Nicholas Boel on Sun Nov 13 17:35:38 2016
    -={ 2016-11-13 11:35:38.399122974-06:00 }=-

    Hey Nicholas!

    If you insist on using type 2.2 packets

    I don't use any of them. I was/am only tacking them onto the outbound. If you
    insist on a different format than what was working just fine then you should have let me know beforehand. I haven't changed anything as far as outbound is concerned but am willing to try something different if it will help.

    At the moment my node is expecting type 2+ packets.

    I tried that with one direct netmail to you and you never responded or acknowledged it so I assumed it was broken as well. Beats me why but I haven't
    been dealing with netmail so it could easily be something there. I am seeing yours just fine but then again no matter what type the pkt header is it ends up
    being ignored at this end. Near as I can tell the first 58 bytes of pkt's are utter crap and always have been.

    What do you see in them?

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Feoh by|+ frofur fira gehwylcum, sceal |#eah man... hyt d|alan.
    Wealth is a comfort to every man; but one should give it away.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 13 12:29:44 2016

    13 Nov 16 16:32, you wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    Seems like quite a few softwares don't support it.

    It was working with yours. Beats me why it now doesn't as I am doing
    it exactly the same. I did notice that you started zipping msgs
    destined for me around the same time it broke. Is that the cause? I don't do zip nor support it in any way shape or form.

    To: AREAFIX
    RE: password

    %ARCHIVER NONE


    or something like that ;)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... 1 in every 4 Americans has appeared on television.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 13 12:08:12 2016
    Hello Maurice,

    On 13 Nov 16 17:35, Maurice Kinal wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    If you insist on using type 2.2 packets

    I don't use any of them. I was/am only tacking them onto the
    outbound. If you insist on a different format than what was working
    just fine then you should have let me know beforehand. I haven't
    changed anything as far as outbound is concerned but am willing to try something different if it will help.

    I can not let you know beforehand what I did not know or realize until actually
    became an issue. I let you know as soon as I was aware of it.

    At the moment my node is expecting type 2+ packets.

    I tried that with one direct netmail to you and you never responded or acknowledged it so I assumed it was broken as well. Beats me why but
    I haven't been dealing with netmail so it could easily be something
    there. I am seeing yours just fine but then again no matter what type
    the pkt header is it ends up being ignored at this end. Near as I can tell the first 58 bytes of pkt's are utter crap and always have been.

    What do you see in them?

    All I know is that a couple fields are definitely changed in length. So when you send me a type 2.2 packet header, my system seems to think it's addressed to a point system that doesn't exist. I can only guess that it's taking numbers
    from another field and adding them to the original TO address. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be able to be fixed or changed in hpt's configuration.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to mark lewis on Sun Nov 13 18:23:14 2016
    -={ 2016-11-13 13:23:14.509693009-05:00 }=-

    Hey mark!

    or something like that ;)

    And what format would it's pkt header use? ;-)

    Anyhow the first and only areafix worked fine and I am not going to change ANYTHING until I am sure I am the cause of any recent bug. At this writing I am not convinced that I am.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Eadig bi|+ se |+e ea|+mod leofa|+; cyme|+ him seo ar of heofonum.
    Blessed is he who lives humbly; mercy comes to him from heaven.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Nicholas Boel on Sun Nov 13 18:26:52 2016
    -={ 2016-11-13 12:26:52.204568949-06:00 }=-

    Hey Nicholas!

    I let you know as soon as I was aware of it.

    Okay. In the meantime I'll just leave well enough alone.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Stieran mon sceal strongum mode, ond |+|at on sta|+elum healdan.
    One must steer a strong mind, and keep it steady.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nicholas Boel on Sun Nov 13 13:35:08 2016

    13 Nov 16 11:16, you wrote to Maurice Kinal:

    They were stopped here, most likely because they were type 2.2
    packets. At the moment my node is expecting type 2+ packets. If I can
    find something in the documentation that states I can change that, I
    will most definitely let you know.

    unless i'm mistaken, HPT recognises all three Type 2 PKT formats... i'm fairly certain i've thrown all three types at it over here but that was a while back :?

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Radioactive Zombie Porn Stars - On the next Geraldo!
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to mark lewis on Sun Nov 13 19:15:14 2016
    -={ 2016-11-13 14:15:14.193704116-05:00 }=-

    Hey mark!

    unless i'm mistaken, HPT recognises all three Type 2 PKT formats...

    Here is the EXACT routine I use here to generate 2.2 headers and it should be noted was used for the original areafix that originated from here to turn on echos not too long ago;

    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste starts
    # generate Type 2.2 pktHeader
    echo "$origNode,$destNode,$origPoint,$destPoint,,2,2,$origNet,$destNet,255,0,,$origZone,$destZone,fidonet,fidonet,0" | \
    perl -e 'while(<>){@myarray = split(",", $_);};\
    print pack("S4a8S4C2a8S2a8a8I", @myarray);' > $OUTPKT
    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste ends

    Sorry about the long line above but hopefully your viewer is capable of handling it properly unlike the usual DOS-think crippleware still being deployed in Fidonet. :::evil grin:::

    I forget which document I gleamed it from but it wasn't too long ago and it was
    the latest version at the time. Up to now it works just fine with every node I
    tested it with.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Ne m|ag non mon n|anne cr|aft for|+bringan butan wisdom.
    No one can accomplish any skill without wisdom.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 13 15:13:40 2016

    13 Nov 16 18:23, you wrote to me:

    or something like that ;)

    And what format would it's pkt header use? ;-)

    it should be able to use any of the three Type 2 PKT formats... the packed message would be standard packed msg format... but i see that it has already been handled manually at the other end ;)

    Anyhow the first and only areafix worked fine and I am not going to
    change ANYTHING until I am sure I am the cause of any recent bug. At
    this writing I am not convinced that I am.

    changing the archiver shouldn't affect the PKT headers at all...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Marriage is an expensive way to get your laundry done free.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to mark lewis on Sun Nov 13 17:35:48 2016
    Hello mark,

    On 13 Nov 16 13:35, mark lewis wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    They were stopped here, most likely because they were type 2.2
    packets. At the moment my node is expecting type 2+ packets. If I
    can find something in the documentation that states I can change
    that, I will most definitely let you know.

    unless i'm mistaken, HPT recognises all three Type 2 PKT formats...
    i'm fairly certain i've thrown all three types at it over here but
    that was a while back :?

    From hpt.texi:

    "tossing packets of 2, 2.0 & 2+ types"

    and..

    "PKT password is limited to 8 characters, this is PKT 2+ limit."

    That is all I found in that document regarding packet header types. A search for "2.2" returns nothing, and a search for "2+" returns the two above lines. That was all I could see on the matter.

    hpt does come with a "pktinfo" program I may be able to run on one of his packets that fails here. That may lead to more clues.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to mark lewis on Sun Nov 13 23:26:32 2016
    -={ 2016-11-13 18:26:32.209358840-05:00 }=-

    Hey mark!

    changing the archiver shouldn't affect the PKT headers at all

    It can. There are lossy archive/compression software especially the ones that combine the two. I won't even mention the ones that are obsolete especially regarding datetime stamps. However I doubt that is the real issue but better to be safe than sorry. It isn't like there aren't already many horror stories about pkzip and the ilk. I see no good reason to tempt the fates. Do you?

    Having said that we'll never know since he already switched it back but I haven't sent any more messages as I am waiting for confirmation before sending any more test messages. Also I wouldn't mind your input about the type 2.2 routine I posted in a previous reply to you.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Eall on mu|#e |+|at on mode.
    All in the mouth that's in the mind.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 13 17:43:26 2016
    Hello Maurice,

    On 13 Nov 16 19:15, Maurice Kinal wrote to mark lewis:

    Here is the EXACT routine I use here to generate 2.2 headers and it
    should be noted was used for the original areafix that originated from here to turn on echos not too long ago;

    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste starts
    # generate Type 2.2 pktHeader
    echo "$origNode,$destNode,$origPoint,$destPoint,,2,2,$origNet,$destNet ,255,0,,$origZone,$destZone,fidonet,fidonet,0" | \ perl -e 'while(<>){@myarray = split(",", $_);};\
    print pack("S4a8S4C2a8S2a8a8I", @myarray);' > $OUTPKT ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste ends

    If you could send me another direct netmail using this format, I have a program
    here in the hpt folder (so I'm assuming it will detect why hpt is rejecting these packets) that I can run on the packet and see what errors it gives (if any).

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 13 18:38:48 2016
    Hello Maurice,

    On 13 Nov 16 23:26, Maurice Kinal wrote to mark lewis:

    It can. There are lossy archive/compression software especially the
    ones that combine the two. I won't even mention the ones that are obsolete especially regarding datetime stamps. However I doubt that
    is the real issue but better to be safe than sorry. It isn't like
    there aren't already many horror stories about pkzip and the ilk. I
    see no good reason to tempt the fates. Do you?

    I only use infozip here. But you have been switched to no compression anyways. I had forgoten you were originally set to that already when setting everything up with HPT.

    Having said that we'll never know since he already switched it back
    but I haven't sent any more messages as I am waiting for confirmation before sending any more test messages. Also I wouldn't mind your
    input about the type 2.2 routine I posted in a previous reply to you.

    Both netmails you sent me were marked as bad, with this error from pktinfo:

    "18:36:49 CapabilityWord error in following pkt! rtfm: IgnoreCapWord.
    wrong or no pkt

    .. and exactly the same for the other netmail, which when I checked them in vim
    noticed you had sent one with a 2+ packet header, and the other with a 2.2 packet header.

    Earlier today, I enabled that option (IgnoreCapWord) and tried re-processing one of your mails marked bad. It then processed the packet, but informed me again that it was a bad packed due to being addressed to 1:154/10.116, which is
    not an active point system anywhere that I'm aware of, especially here.

    So either you're including something else in there that is even causing hpt to dislike your 2+ AND 2.2 packets (I am not having any issues with netmail from anyone else so far, 3-4 netmails with Wilfred yesterday, and quite a few Areafix netmails today linking my two systems back together after a week of separation), or there is something else.

    I'm definitely interested in further testing to get this figured out, and thank
    you for the two test netmails. I hope to see more so we can get to the bottom of this!

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 13 18:48:22 2016
    Hello Maurice,

    On 13 Nov 16 19:15, Maurice Kinal wrote to mark lewis:

    Here is the EXACT routine I use here to generate 2.2 headers and it
    should be noted was used for the original areafix that originated from here to turn on echos not too long ago;

    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste starts
    # generate Type 2.2 pktHeader
    echo "$origNode,$destNode,$origPoint,$destPoint,,2,2,$origNet,$destNet ,255,0,,$origZone,$destZone,fidonet,fidonet,0" | \ perl -e 'while(<>){@myarray = split(",", $_);};\
    print pack("S4a8S4C2a8S2a8a8I", @myarray);' > $OUTPKT ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste ends

    So your generated packet headers will only work with Fidonet? Reason I ask, is why is there two "fidonet" entries in the above routine?

    By the way, hpt.texi mentions this "CapabilityWord" as something used by old software.

    IgnoreCapWord definition:

    "Ignoring Capability Word in pkt files. If some pkt moved to bad. This may help, but not recommended. It is better to change old software."

    So I'm guessing you're using some kind of capability word in your headers that are causing hpt to consider it bad.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 13 19:15:52 2016
    Hello Maurice,

    On 13 Nov 16 19:15, Maurice Kinal wrote to mark lewis:

    Here is the EXACT routine I use here to generate 2.2 headers and it
    should be noted was used for the original areafix that originated from here to turn on echos not too long ago;

    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste starts
    # generate Type 2.2 pktHeader
    echo "$origNode,$destNode,$origPoint,$destPoint,,2,2,$origNet,$destNet ,255,0,,$origZone,$destZone,fidonet,fidonet,0" | \ perl -e 'while(<>){@myarray = split(",", $_);};\
    print pack("S4a8S4C2a8S2a8a8I", @myarray);' > $OUTPKT ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste ends

    I went one step further and removed the two instances of "fidonet" in your type
    2.2 packet header, and ran pktinfo on it. Most everything came back normal *except* it seems you're including the nets for the points:

    [snip]

    PktInfo/lnx 1.9.0-cur 14-08-16

    Pkt-Name: 582903ae.bad
    OrigAddr: 1:153/7001.153
    DestAddr: 1:154/10.154
    pkt created: Wed Dec 31 17:59:59 1969
    pkt Password:
    prodCode: 00ff
    prodRevision 0.0

    -------------------------------------
    A 19:19:31 There are 313 bytes of unknown data at the end of pkt file!

    [/snip]

    Not sure if that helps you any. I couldn't get any good information out of the 2+ packet since I couldn't find any physical capability words like I did the two "fidonet" instances in the 2.2 packet.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Nicholas Boel on Mon Nov 14 01:14:32 2016
    -={ 2016-11-13 19:14:32.899537047-06:00 }=-

    Hey Nicholas!

    CapabilityWord error in following pkt!

    I'll have to look that up to see what field(s) it is supposed to match. Also due to the lack of suitable documentation, I will reverse engineer your pkt headers and see what I can match up to my 2+ pkt generator and see what gives there.

    further testing to get this figured out

    Agreed. Again, due to the lack of proper documentation I plan to try the old school backwards engineering methodology before getting too worked up about it.
    ;-)

    If you are aware of any PROPER documentation where a thingy like the perl oneliner I posted can be formed from, now would be an excellent time to bring it up and possibly save much grief. I doubt such documentation truly exists but maybe. I am unaware of any and originally built that one from using the hit and miss method.

    is why is there two "fidonet" entries in the above routine?

    Those match with domain names for 5d addressing such as 1:153/7001.0@fidonet. They can easily be changed to variables if and when it ever matters. At the moment it doesn't ... does it?

    BTW the reason I prefer type 2.2, not that I really care, is that it contains no datetime stamps which might help out systems that cannot generate datetime stamps, especially obsolete ones. Just a thought.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Leorna lare l|argedefe, wene |+ec in wisdom.
    Learn lessons fit for learning, train yourself in wisdom.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 13 19:44:40 2016
    Hello Maurice,

    On 14 Nov 16 01:14, Maurice Kinal wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    CapabilityWord error in following pkt!

    I'll have to look that up to see what field(s) it is supposed to
    match. Also due to the lack of suitable documentation, I will reverse engineer your pkt headers and see what I can match up to my 2+ pkt generator and see what gives there.

    Let me know what you figure out. Information is a wonderful thing. :)

    If you are aware of any PROPER documentation where a thingy like the
    perl oneliner I posted can be formed from, now would be an excellent
    time to bring it up and possibly save much grief. I doubt such documentation truly exists but maybe. I am unaware of any and
    originally built that one from using the hit and miss method.

    Unfortunately, that's exactly what I've been doing with the 80+ FSC documents, and narrowing the search on the site by looking for keyword "Type". There's a lot of proposals, but that's basically where I got the information on the "capability word" hpt is speaking of. Looks to be an old implementation so zone
    numbers could be added to packets or something.

    is why is there two "fidonet" entries in the above routine?

    Those match with domain names for 5d addressing such as 1:153/7001.0@fidonet. They can easily be changed to variables if and
    when it ever matters. At the moment it doesn't ... does it?

    The only thing that matters is that somehow those seem to be using the 2 "Capability Word" fields that hpt is complaining about.

    BTW the reason I prefer type 2.2, not that I really care, is that it contains no datetime stamps which might help out systems that cannot generate datetime stamps, especially obsolete ones. Just a thought.

    Mark has said he's almost certain that he has passed proper 2.2 packets through
    hpt, although I haven't seen anything in the documentation on it). So if it is at all possible, I say do whatever makes you happy. :)

    However even your type-2+ netmails arriving here are causing hpt to yell at me.
    So something is definitely awry, and I'm guessing my old software (Synchronet BBS software) was still allowing some very old backwards compatibility, which is probably why it never mentioned any issues with your netmails prior to me switching to hpt. Seems as though BBBS may do the same thing in this regard.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Nicholas Boel on Mon Nov 14 02:17:04 2016
    -={ 2016-11-13 20:17:04.528430705-06:00 }=-

    Hey Nicholas!

    Not sure if that helps you any.

    Not really although it does tell me that hpt is not reading it as type 2.2. The datetime stamp is a dead giveaway.

    I couldn't find any physical capability words

    I am not sure what you mean but I think fields 6 and 7 might be what you're thinking about. I have a bash script I wrote to test the first 58 bytes of raw
    pkt files in an attempt to distinguish the pkt type. It seems to work but was based on the document neither of us seems to be able to locate on the ftsc site.

    Information is a wonderful thing.

    Especially legitimate verifiable information. ;-)

    Best of luck finding that. We've both tried that on the FTSC_PUBLIC echo in the past without any success so I figure we're on our own. I think we can crack it.

    Seems as though BBBS may do the same thing in this regard.

    Yes. I can confirm that as well as it is broken wrt original type 2 pkt headers. That happened about a dozen years ago or so. Again there was NO documentation I could find to reflect the change and I had to do ye olde reverse engineering to figure it out.

    Oh well ... back to the drawing board eh? I'll fire off a warning shot here when I have something worth testing. I plan to first look at the bash pkt determinator and see what I can learn from it before hacking headers.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Man de|+ swa he by|+ |+onne he mot swa he wile.
    A man acts what he is when he may do what he will.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 13 21:16:04 2016
    Hello Maurice,

    On 14 Nov 16 02:17, Maurice Kinal wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    Not really although it does tell me that hpt is not reading it as type 2.2. The datetime stamp is a dead giveaway.

    It's quite possible too that once whatever is fixed in order for hpt to read it
    as a legitimate packet, that may possibly be fixed as well. That's where the trial and error comes in. :)

    I couldn't find any physical capability words

    I am not sure what you mean but I think fields 6 and 7 might be what you're thinking about. I have a bash script I wrote to test the first
    58 bytes of raw pkt files in an attempt to distinguish the pkt type.
    It seems to work but was based on the document neither of us seems to
    be able to locate on the ftsc site.

    I believe those are the fields as well. Looking at FSC-0039 (if I remember right), it mentioned something about "capability words", or "CW", which I figured was those two fields.

    I think we can crack it.

    Agreed.

    Oh well ... back to the drawing board eh? I'll fire off a warning
    shot here when I have something worth testing. I plan to first look
    at the bash pkt determinator and see what I can learn from it before hacking headers.

    Sounds good. I'm ready when you are.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Maurice Kinal on Mon Nov 14 04:37:06 2016
    Hej Maurice!

    Lordag 12. November 2016 kl.20:15 skrev Maurice Kinal til Maurice Kinal:

    A bottle of 15 year old scotch.

    inteligent people are never borring :=)

    reply to friends might help


    Benny

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
    * Origin: me at junc dot org (2:230/0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Benny Pedersen on Mon Nov 14 03:53:34 2016
    -={ 2016-11-14 04:53:35.322472180+01:00 }=-

    Hey Benny!

    reply to friends might help

    Are we friends? If so then you are welcome to share the planned 15 year old but I suggest you bring some Danish beer to go along with it. We can use them as chasers.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Earh m|ag |+|at an |+|at he him ondr|ade.
    A coward can only do one thing: what he fears.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Nicholas Boel on Mon Nov 14 07:10:50 2016
    -={ 2016-11-14 07:10:51.532988656+00:00 }=-

    Hey Nicholas!

    Please find below the oneliner for type 2 pkt headers gleemed from fts-0001.016
    which makes it well documented.

    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste starts
    # generate Type 2 pktHeader
    PKT_DATE=( $(date +"%Y %-m %-d %-H %-M %-S" | \
    awk 'BEGIN { OFS = "," } {print $1, $2-1, $3, $4, $5, $6}') )
    echo -e "$origNode,$destNode,${PKT_DATE[@]},0,2,$origNet,$destNet,0,0,,$origZone,$destZone," | \
    perl -e 'while(<>){@myarray = split(/,/, $_);};\
    print pack("S12C2a8S2a20", @myarray);' > $OUTPKT
    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste ends

    Note the additional awk call which fixes the month silliness (ie 0-11). Same will have to happen in type 2+ headers although it could have been taken care of within the perl part as it has a builtin function for that particular peculiarity. However I prefer the awk call and when I originally wrote that call was thinking I might use gawk for fidonetting more.

    Anyhow I am glad to see type 2 pkt headers working again. I am going to leave the type 2.2 links as is for now as I think that is a better type especially for nodes that cannot do datetime stamps.

    Time for bed. I earned it methinks.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... |#one wisdom |#e |#e God sealde |#|ar |#|ar |#u hiene bef|astan m|age, bef|aste.
    Wherever you can use the wisdom God gave you, use it.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Maurice Kinal on Mon Nov 14 07:59:02 2016
    Hello Maurice,

    On 14 Nov 16 07:10, Maurice Kinal wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste starts
    # generate Type 2 pktHeader
    PKT_DATE=( $(date +"%Y %-m %-d %-H %-M %-S" | \
    awk 'BEGIN { OFS = "," } {print $1, $2-1, $3, $4, $5, $6}') )
    echo -e "$origNode,$destNode,${PKT_DATE[@]},0,2,$origNet,$destNet,0,0,,$origZo ne,$destZone," | \ perl -e 'while(<>){@myarray = split(/,/, $_);};\
    print pack("S12C2a8S2a20", @myarray);' > $OUTPKT
    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste ends

    Looks good. That brings up the differences between type 2 and type 2+ though. I
    believe zone and point information was introduced. If we can get it there, maybe that's as far as we should go until we can get some proof that anything further may or may not work.

    Maybe Mark can get in on the fun and try sending me a netmail from one of his softwares that handles type 2.2 headers to see if it processes? (hint hint I know he's reading). :)

    Anyhow I am glad to see type 2 pkt headers working again. I am going
    to leave the type 2.2 links as is for now as I think that is a better
    type especially for nodes that cannot do datetime stamps.

    Definitely.

    Time for bed. I earned it methinks.

    Agreed. Well done for a day's work, eh? :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Mon Nov 14 10:18:46 2016

    13 Nov 16 23:26, you wrote to me:

    changing the archiver shouldn't affect the PKT headers at all

    It can.

    it can but it has not affected FTN operations...

    There are lossy archive/compression software especially the ones that combine the two. I won't even mention the ones that are obsolete especially regarding datetime stamps. However I doubt that is the
    real issue but better to be safe than sorry. It isn't like there
    aren't already many horror stories about pkzip and the ilk. I see no
    good reason to tempt the fates. Do you?

    we stopped using archivers over here for FTN stuffs over a decade ago... we send raw PKTs and it also helps with maintaining a rolling 30 day mail archive in case there's a question about a message and the raw PKT needs to be studied...

    Having said that we'll never know since he already switched it back
    but I haven't sent any more messages as I am waiting for confirmation before sending any more test messages. Also I wouldn't mind your
    input about the type 2.2 routine I posted in a previous reply to you.

    i saw it but i haven't had time to extract it and give it a play... looking at it, it should also be easy enough to create a type 2 and 2+ format using it as a base ;)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Waiter! There's soup on my fly!
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nicholas Boel on Mon Nov 14 10:22:30 2016

    13 Nov 16 17:35, you wrote to me:

    They were stopped here, most likely because they were type 2.2
    packets. At the moment my node is expecting type 2+ packets. If I
    can find something in the documentation that states I can change
    that, I will most definitely let you know.

    unless i'm mistaken, HPT recognises all three Type 2 PKT formats...
    i'm fairly certain i've thrown all three types at it over here but
    that was a while back :?

    From hpt.texi:

    "tossing packets of 2, 2.0 & 2+ types"

    i suspect that's a typo as 2 and 2.0 are the same...

    and..

    "PKT password is limited to 8 characters, this is PKT 2+ limit."

    it is a Type 2 limitation that covers all Type 2 variants... in pascal, we define them as

    password : array[0..7] of char;

    or some might define them as

    password : array[1..8] of char;

    if they don't start counting from zero... in either case, it is eight characters max...

    That is all I found in that document regarding packet header types. A search for "2.2" returns nothing, and a search for "2+" returns the
    two above lines. That was all I could see on the matter.

    hpt does come with a "pktinfo" program I may be able to run on one of
    his packets that fails here. That may lead to more clues.

    that would be one thing to do... if you like, you can also send it to me and i can look at it with my READPKT tool...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Out of body, be back in five minutes.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nicholas Boel on Mon Nov 14 10:30:56 2016

    13 Nov 16 18:48, you wrote to Maurice Kinal:

    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste starts
    # generate Type 2.2 pktHeader
    echo "$origNode,$destNode,$origPoint,$destPoint,,2,2,$origNet,$destNet
    ,255,0,,$origZone,$destZone,fidonet,fidonet,0" | \ perl -e
    'while(<>){@myarray = split(",", $_);};\
    print pack("S4a8S4C2a8S2a8a8I", @myarray);' > $OUTPKT
    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste ends

    So your generated packet headers will only work with Fidonet? Reason I
    ask,
    is why is there two "fidonet" entries in the above routine?

    origDomain, destDomain... he could replace those two hardcoded "fidonet" entries with variables and put those variables ther instead... as i recall, maurice only does fidonet...

    By the way, hpt.texi mentions this "CapabilityWord" as something used
    by old software.

    yes and no... here's the PKT header definitions i use in my pascal READPKT tool... it should help you in understanding the PKT headers... remember that they are all the same size, 58 bytes...

    ==== Begin "READPKT.PAS" ====

    [trim]

    type
    bulkheader = array[0..57] of byte;
    pkthead1 = record {Type 2+ FSC-0039/48}
    orgnode : word;
    dstnode : word;
    year : integer;
    month : integer;
    day : integer;
    hours : integer;
    minutes : integer;
    seconds : integer;
    baud : integer;
    pktver : integer;
    orgnet : word;
    dstnet : word;
    prdcodl : byte;
    pvmajor : byte;
    password : array[0..7] of char;
    qorgzone : integer;
    qdstzone : integer;
    auxnet : word;
    capval : word;
    prdcodh : byte;
    pvminor : byte;
    capword : word;
    origzone : integer;
    destzone : integer;
    origpoint : integer;
    destpoint : integer;
    proddata : array[0..3] of char;
    end;

    pkthead2 = record {Type 2.0 FTS-0001}
    orgnode : integer;
    dstnode : integer;
    year : integer;
    month : integer;
    day : integer;
    hours : integer;
    minutes : integer;
    seconds : integer;
    baud : integer;
    pktver : integer;
    orgnet : word;
    dstnet : word;
    prdcode : byte;
    pvmajor : byte;
    password : array[0..7] of char;
    qorgzone : integer;
    qdstzone : integer;
    filler : array[0..19] of char;
    end;

    pkthead3 = record {Type 2.2 FSC-0045}
    orignode : integer;
    destnode : integer;
    origpoint : integer;
    destpoint : integer;
    reserved : array[0..7] of char;
    pktsubver : integer;
    pktver : integer;
    orignet : word;
    destnet : word;
    prdcod : byte;
    prdrev : byte;
    password : array[0..7] of char;
    origzone : integer;
    destzone : integer;
    origdom : array[0..7] of char;
    destdom : array[0..7] of char;
    proddata : array[0..3] of char;
    end;

    [trim]

    var
    bheader : bulkheader;
    header1 : pkthead1 absolute bheader;
    header2 : pkthead2 absolute bheader;
    header3 : pkthead3 absolute bheader;

    [chomp]

    ==== End "READPKT.PAS" ====

    IgnoreCapWord definition:

    "Ignoring Capability Word in pkt files. If some pkt moved to bad. This may help, but not recommended. It is better to change old software."

    agreed on it being not recommended... type 2+ uses capval and capword... one is
    the binary inverse of the other... added as a check to ensure that the PKT is a
    type 2+...

    So I'm guessing you're using some kind of capability word in your
    headers that are causing hpt to consider it bad.

    if he's generating Type 2+, then he has to use capword and the inverse capval... type 2+ is also a bit tricky in that points are handled a certain way
    with the point part of their addresses being in one of two places... if in the second place, a specific value has to be written in the first to indicate the software is to look in the second place for the proper point address value...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... God gave us booze to keep the Irish from ruling the World.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to mark lewis on Mon Nov 14 19:25:02 2016
    -={ 2016-11-14 14:25:03.121560487-05:00 }=-

    Hey mark!

    we stopped using archivers over here for FTN stuffs over a decade
    ago...

    A very wise idea.

    i saw it but i haven't had time to extract it and give it a play

    I see your reply to Nick with cited ftsc documents which I plan to reference once I get an opportunity to read them over and compare to what I currently have. Thank you for that.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Wyrd by|# swi|#ost... sumor sunwlitegost, swegel by|# hatost.
    Fate is the strongest thing... summer sun-fairest, the sun is hottest.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Nicholas Boel on Mon Nov 14 19:34:10 2016
    -={ 2016-11-14 13:34:10.078039409-06:00 }=-

    Hey Nicholas!

    Looks good.

    It didn't travel well especially when quoted but I think I get what you're saying. Yes it definetly works which does look good.

    That brings up the differences between type 2 and type 2+ though.

    The most obvious difference is the last 20 bytes of a type 2 header are filled with nulls.

    I believe zone and point information was introduced.

    {orig,dest}zone is in both.

    If we can get it there,

    I think later today. Stay tuned. :-)

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Wel bi|# |+am eorle |+e him on innan hafa|#... rume heortan.
    Well shall it be for the man who has within him a generous heart.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Mon Nov 14 16:24:56 2016

    14 Nov 16 19:25, you wrote to me:

    i saw it but i haven't had time to extract it and give it a play

    I see your reply to Nick with cited ftsc documents which I plan to reference once I get an opportunity to read them over and compare to
    what I currently have. Thank you for that.

    you are welcome... my type 2+ stuff uses both of the named documents... i've not tried a bare version of the initial 2+ stuff... AFAIK, none exists and it is all a combination of both with the second one being the clarification format...

    nick should maybe also remember a conversation, if he read everything, in either MYSTIC or one of the SYNC echos... but it may have been in FTSC_PUBLIC or NET_DEV... anyway, the conversation was about how to get the point address from a 2+ PKT... gotta check this field and if it contains blah then you have to look in that field... new packages should place drek hare and do barf over there...

    now that i think about it, it may have been the document that Stephen Hurd (Deuce) was working on... i should have a copy of that somewhere around here...
    i don't think it has been submitted as a proposal yet, though... it does, however, lay out things a bit clearer and includes some things barely known in the past...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I call myself a gourmet; I'm really a gourmand.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to mark lewis on Mon Nov 14 23:48:54 2016
    -={ 2016-11-14 18:48:55.305702656-05:00 }=-

    Hey mark!

    my type 2+ stuff uses both of the named documents

    I see that but have yet to take a looksee at either. Thanks for the heads up.

    it may have been the document that Stephen Hurd (Deuce) was
    working on

    I am wondering if that is the same one I saw and now looks to be missing in action. If so it was a well written doc as per all three pkt types.

    Speaking of a difference I see in your READPKT.PAS that proddata in type 2.2 is
    defined as "array[0..3] of char" whereas in the posted type 2.2 I have it as a 32 bit integer. FSC-0045 doesn't define it but does have it's width specified as 4 bytes which doesn't help matters any. Personally either/or is fine with me but I was hoping to get it right and a 32 bit integer is not the same as a 4
    byte character string/array/whatever other than they are both 4 bytes at the same offset.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Wyrd bi|+ swi|+re, Meotud meahtigra, |+onne |anges monnes gehygd.
    Fate is stronger, the Lord mightier, than any man's thoughts.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Mon Nov 14 20:52:22 2016

    14 Nov 16 23:48, you wrote to me:

    my type 2+ stuff uses both of the named documents

    I see that but have yet to take a looksee at either. Thanks for the
    heads up.

    welcome :)

    it may have been the document that Stephen Hurd (Deuce) was working
    on

    I am wondering if that is the same one I saw and now looks to be
    missing in action. If so it was a well written doc as per all three
    pkt types.

    very... i was glad to offer some input on it, as well...

    Speaking of a difference I see in your READPKT.PAS that proddata in
    type 2.2 is defined as "array[0..3] of char" whereas in the posted
    type 2.2 I have it as a 32 bit integer. FSC-0045 doesn't define it
    but does have it's width specified as 4 bytes which doesn't help
    matters any. Personally either/or is fine with me but I was hoping to
    get it right and a 32 bit integer is not the same as a 4 byte
    character string/array/whatever other than they are both 4 bytes at
    the same offset.

    yep... i wasn't sure how to define it to just used a 4 byte array as the data format was unspecified... seeing as it is "product specific data" it could be any four byte data or even one or two bytes of something with another oine or two for the rest... chars or some four byte numerical format... the main goal, at that time (1995) was to get the proper byte count for the header... i'm not certain but i'm fairly sure that i've run some 2.2 PKTs through the reader... never really saw anything that would indicate the type of data stored there, though... it seems pretty well open ended as far as those bytes are concerned...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Coming Up: French chef Jacques Cousteau's blackened whale recipe.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to mark lewis on Tue Nov 15 05:55:32 2016
    -={ 2016-11-15 00:55:32.798509725-05:00 }=-

    Hey mark!

    seems pretty well open ended as far as those bytes are concerned

    Hm. So far I haven't had a problem with it. I tried unpacking as both a string and a 32 bit integer and it had no issues with it either way so I think I'll leave it as is until it becomes a better documented "standard", if I can be so bold to use that word. :::sigh:::

    Hopefully I'll find out soon about my last attempt at a type 2+ pkt header. I'd much rather be working on my latest kick which is/was the aarch64 cross compiler thingy. I think I might have raspi3 and odroid-c2 covered but am still missing out on pine64 without having to resort to special git kernel sources or possibly finding a suitable patch for the regular releases.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Lef mon l|aces behofa|#; l|aran sceal mon geongne monnan.
    A sick man needs a doctor; a young man should be taught.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Maurice Kinal on Tue Nov 15 20:41:54 2016
    Hej Maurice!

    Mandag 14. November 2016 kl.03:53 skrev Maurice Kinal til Benny Pedersen:

    Are we friends?

    so no ?

    If so then you are welcome to share the planned 15
    year old but I suggest you bring some Danish beer to go along with it.

    +1

    We can use them as chasers.

    na i will take it return home


    Benny

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
    * Origin: me at junc dot org (2:230/0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Benny Pedersen on Tue Nov 15 20:19:56 2016
    -={ 2016-11-15 21:19:56.432031063+01:00 }=-

    Hey Benny!

    na i will take it return home

    It would be MUCH cheaper to just buy it in Denmark. Also it is probably cheaper for you to fly to Scotland and buy it there.

    Have you ever been to Scotland?

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Sceomiande man sceal in sceade hweorfan; scir in leohte gerise|#.
    A shamed man must go in the shadows; the pure belong in the light.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to mark lewis on Fri Nov 18 11:38:00 2016
    -={ 2016-11-18 06:38:25.244753537-05:00 }=-

    Hey mark!

    i'm not certain but i'm fairly sure that i've run some 2.2 PKTs
    through the reader

    Here is something I'd appreciate your input on;

    ---------- pkt type data vector generator starts
    #!/bin/bash
    origAddr="1:153/7001.0@fidonet"
    destAddr="1:3634/12.73@fidonet"

    ##### divide and conquer ftn addresses
    read origZone origNet origNode origPoint origDom <<< $(echo $origAddr | tr ':/.@' ' ')
    read destZone destNet destNode destPoint destDom <<< $(echo $destAddr | tr ':/.@' ' ')

    ##### only required for types 2 and 2+
    ##### subtract 1 from month to match localtime() output (ie 0-11)
    PKT_DATE=( $(date +"%Y %-m %-d %-H %-M %-S" | \
    awk 'BEGIN { OFS = "," } {print $1, $2-1, $3, $4, $5, $6}') )

    echo -e "\e[1;31mtype 2 data vector:\e[0m"
    echo "$origNode,$destNode,${PKT_DATE[@]},0,2,$origNet,$destNet,0,0,,$origZone,$destZ one,"
    echo -e "\e[1;31mtype 2+ data vector:\e[0m"
    echo "$origNode,$destNode,${PKT_DATE[@]},0,2,$origNet,$destNet,255,1,,$origZone,$des tZone,0,256,16,9,1,$origZone,$destZone,$origPoint,$destPoint,"
    echo -e "\e[1;31mtype 2.2 data vector:\e[0m"
    echo "$origNode,$destNode,$origPoint,$destPoint,,2,2,$origNet,$destNet,255,0,,$origZ one,$destZone,$origDom,$destDom,0"
    ---------- pkt type data vector generator ends

    Note that all the echo calls are one line or at least were when they left here.
    Also I used your Origin line address with the domain addition as the destAddr. Also, also added ansi colours (red) the the type echo's (see 'echo -e' calls). All output is pure ascii and the only thing I can see that could possibly benefit from utf-8 encoding would be the domain names but then due to the byte limitations that would be even more crippling than it already is.

    Any and all criticism will be appreciated.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Wene |+ec |+y betran, efn elne |+is a |+enden |+u lifge.
    Train yourself for the better way, ever with courage as long as you live. --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Maurice Kinal on Fri Nov 18 14:52:30 2016
    -={ 2016-11-18 06:52:31.711000698-08:00 }=-

    Hey Maurice!

    Note that all the echo calls are one line or at least were when
    they left here.

    I hate to be the one to tell you this but the entire message got tampered with somewhere along the line. On the plus side, at least it made it through the loop although I am not convinced it is worth it given the obvious mess made of it. :::sigh:::

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... W|arwyrde sceal wisf|ast h|ale, breostum hycgan.
    Wary with words, a wise man should meditate in his heart.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Sat Nov 19 22:27:34 2016

    18 Nov 16 11:38, you wrote to me:

    i'm not certain but i'm fairly sure that i've run some 2.2 PKTs
    through the reader

    Here is something I'd appreciate your input on;

    maurice... i am not ignoring this... i plan on digging into it but have just been swamped with RL carp to deal with... have finally caught up on four days of emails and forum tech support postings... somewhat over 800 posts at a guess... it is well past bed time, too... i'm trying to set aside some time tomorrow, sunday, to play with this code...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... When you work hard you can afford to play hard.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to mark lewis on Sun Nov 20 04:22:00 2016
    -={ 2016-11-19 23:22:23.131043302-05:00 }=-

    Hey mark!

    i am not ignoring this... i plan on digging into it

    Take your time, I am in no rush as I have (had) it all working at one time or another. For my part I just want verification to it's validity given the lack of published standards.

    to play with this code...

    Not much to play with. It's missing the conversion to binary but that wouldn't
    help much as far as identification as valid data as per the three types.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Se |#e ear gife|# and eft oftih|#... bysmer he gewyrce|#.
    He who gives and takes it back again does a shameful thing.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 20 08:43:30 2016

    18 Nov 16 11:38, you wrote to me:

    Here is something I'd appreciate your input on;

    ---------- pkt type data vector generator starts

    [trim]

    ---------- pkt type data vector generator ends

    Note that all the echo calls are one line or at least were when they left here. Also I used your Origin line address with the domain addition as
    the
    destAddr. Also, also added ansi colours (red) the the type echo's (see 'echo -e' calls). All output is pure ascii

    from what i can see, it looks good... how do you convert it to binary? i want to look at it with a couple of packet inspection tools...

    and the only thing I can see that could possibly benefit from utf-8 encoding would be the domain names but then due to the byte
    limitations that would be even more crippling than it already is.

    yeah, there is that... one has to remember, too, that these are FTN domains... FTN domains are of similar nature to NETBIOS and NOVELL domains... they are not
    internet domains... they can only be up do eight characters long and are restricted to printable ASCII characters...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Back off man, We're scientists!!!
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 20 08:48:22 2016

    18 Nov 16 14:52, you wrote to you:

    Note that all the echo calls are one line or at least were when they
    left here.

    I hate to be the one to tell you this but the entire message got
    tampered with somewhere along the line.

    it arrived in perfect shape over here... i was able to view it with no problem... long lines and all... when i saved it to disk, though, the lines did
    get wrapped but that was an easy three second edit before marking it executable
    and running it...

    On the plus side, at least it made it through the loop although I am
    not convinced it is worth it given the obvious mess made of it.
    :::sigh:::

    dunno what mess you're speaking of... it is possible that what you are seeing is the result of the system you are reading it on performing formatting on it when presenting it for display... some systems do that while others do not... most of the display formatting stuff happens if there is a line longer than some pre-determined right margin... in general that's column 75... some software tries to be too smart for its own good...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... He who goes with wolves learns to howl. -Spanish Proverb
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 20 08:53:26 2016

    20 Nov 16 04:22, you wrote to me:

    i am not ignoring this... i plan on digging into it

    Take your time, I am in no rush as I have (had) it all working at one
    time or another. For my part I just want verification to it's
    validity given the lack of published standards.

    there's only one part that i question but we'll see what comes up...

    to play with this code...

    Not much to play with. It's missing the conversion to binary but that wouldn't help much as far as identification as valid data as per the
    three types.

    yeah, i want that conversion to binary so i can see it with some pkt readers...
    i'm a rather visual person and see things better when they are in their field positions inside the final results... i have to pick and pluck and spin and duck to count csv fields and try to remember what their field names are... seeing them listed in a pkt tool does two things... the most important being that it shows that other software can properly read the results ;)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Laughing helps. It's like jogging on the inside.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to mark lewis on Sun Nov 20 14:15:00 2016
    -={ 2016-11-20 09:15:50.055384221-05:00 }=-

    Hey mark!

    how do you convert it to binary?

    perl oneliners. Calls to the builtin pack() function to be more specific. For
    example for the type 2 pkt it looks like;

    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste starts
    perl -e 'while(<>){@myarray = split(/,/, $_);};\
    print pack("S12C2a8S2a20", @myarray);' > $OUTPKT
    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste ends

    Types 2+ and 2.2 are the same except the template string differs as follows;

    Type 2+: "S12C2a8S4C2S5I"
    Type 2.2: "S4a8S4C2a8S2a8a8I"

    FTN domains are of similar nature to NETBIOS and NOVELL domains

    That explains their inherent lameness. ;-)

    restricted to printable ASCII characters

    See the two a8's in the type 2.2 template string. The 'a' format specifier represents ascii and the '8' part restricts the string to 8 characters.

    While I am at it the 'split' call splits the data vector into fields that are then packed according to the corresponding specifier.

    i want to look at it with a couple of packet inspection tools...

    Sure.

    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste starts
    # generate Type 2 pktHeader
    PKT_DATE=( $(date +"%Y %-m %-d %-H %-M %-S" | \
    awk 'BEGIN { OFS = "," } {print $1, $2-1, $3, $4, $5, $6}') )
    echo "$origNode,$destNode,${PKT_DATE[@]},0,2,$origNet,$destNet,0,0,,$origZone,$destZ one," | \
    perl -e 'while(<>){@myarray = split(/,/, $_);};\
    print pack("S12C2a8S2a20", @myarray);' > $OUTPKT
    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste ends

    Hopefully you'll recieve the above intact. I've noticed someone along the path
    back to here is doing some unwanted reformatting of long lines. Let me know if there is more you require and I'll do my best to make it so.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Ne m|ag werig mod wyrde wi|#stondan, ne se hreo hyge helpe gefremman.
    A weary mind cannot withstand fate, nor a sad heart offer help.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to mark lewis on Sun Nov 20 14:40:00 2016
    -={ 2016-11-20 09:40:28.319281684-05:00 }=-

    Hey mark!

    i want that conversion to binary so i can see it with some pkt
    readers

    Since you seem to be recieving my msg intact then here are the three types inclufing the ascii comma delimited data vectors;

    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste starts
    #################### write pktHeaders
    # generate Type 2 pktHeader
    PKT_DATE=( $(date +"%Y %-m %-d %-H %-M %-S" | \
    awk 'BEGIN { OFS = "," } {print $1, $2-1, $3, $4, $5, $6}') )
    echo "$origNode,$destNode,${PKT_DATE[@]},0,2,$origNet,$destNet,0,0,,$origZone,$destZ one," | \
    perl -e 'while(<>){@myarray = split(/,/, $_);};\
    print pack("S12C2a8S2a20", @myarray);' > $OUTPKT

    # generate Type 2+ pktHeader
    PKT_DATE=( $(date +"%Y %-m %-d %-H %-M %-S" | \
    awk 'BEGIN { OFS = "," } {print $1, $2-1, $3, $4, $5, $6}') )
    echo "$origNode,$destNode,${PKT_DATE[@]},0,2,$origNet,$destNet,255,1,,$origZone,$des tZone,0,256,16,9,1,$origZone,$destZone,$origPoint,$destPoint," | \
    perl -e 'while(<>){@myarray = split(/,/, $_);};\
    print pack("S12C2a8S4C2S5I", @myarray);' > $OUTPKT

    # generate Type 2.2 pktHeader
    echo "$origNode,$destNode,$origPoint,$destPoint,,2,2,$origNet,$destNet,255,0,,$origZ one,$destZone,fidonet,fidonet,0" | \
    perl -e 'while(<>){@myarray = split(/,/, $_);};\
    print pack("S4a8S4C2a8S2a8a8I", @myarray);' > $OUTPKT
    ---------- ye olde gpm cut n' paste ends

    Feel free to edit them to suit, such as defining $OUTPKT. ;-)

    Also note that I duplicated PKT_DATE since I wanted to make sure that if you only strip out the one type that you also include it for that type since it is needed.

    If you require anything else to complete the above please don't hesitate to ask.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... |#one wisdom |#e |#e God sealde |#|ar |#|ar |#u hiene bef|astan m|age, bef|aste.
    Wherever you can use the wisdom God gave you, use it.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 20 13:15:06 2016

    20 Nov 16 14:15, you wrote to me:

    how do you convert it to binary?

    perl oneliners. Calls to the builtin pack() function to be more specific.

    ahhh... ok...

    [trim]

    i want to look at it with a couple of packet inspection tools...

    Sure.

    i've modified the script to add the packet termination bytes... i've left a gap
    in the code where messages might be read and packed in after the packet header before the packet termination bytes are written... i have OUTPKT being set like
    this

    OUTPKT=$(printf '%x.pkt' $(date +%s))

    after the packet termination bytes are written i then sleep for one second... mainly because this is so fast and i'm only creating what is known as "null packets" which just means packets without any packed messages in them... i'm sure you have code for packed messages but this works for now for this testing ;)

    everything looks good at this point... i want to see about doing the Type 2+ stuff from points more properly where if the originating address has a non-zero
    point, the "orgNet" field is set to 65535 and the actual originating net number
    is found in the "auxNet" field... since you are not a point, you don't find/see
    this but it is something that should be added at some point if the code is going to be shared with others...

    something else would be to also check if either originating or destination addresses have a non-zero point and to not attempt to use Type 2 (aka stoneage aka FTS-0001) for them unless there's a "pointnet" in use... "pointnets" are really old school and were assigned by the IC for those systems that had points
    and could only handle Type 2 packets... when Type 2+ and Type 2.2 got more widespread, pointnets kinda dropped off... then also since we don't have an IC any more, there's really no one to assign pointnets...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... We are prisoners of ideas.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to mark lewis on Sun Nov 20 19:36:00 2016
    -={ 2016-11-20 14:36:43.951743426-05:00 }=-

    Hey mark!

    something that should be added at some point if the code is going
    to be shared with others

    For sure. On that note when can one expect a valid fts doc(s) regarding pkt types?

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Beam sceal on eor|#an leafum li|+an, leomu gnornian.
    A tree on the earth must lose its leaves; the branches mourn.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 20 18:31:14 2016

    20 Nov 16 19:36, you wrote to me:

    something that should be added at some point if the code is going to
    be shared with others

    For sure.

    :)

    On that note when can one expect a valid fts doc(s) regarding pkt
    types?

    the ones i noted previously are valid... proposals cannot become standards until they are in widespread use... this works differently than, say, internet RFCs... FTN proposals have to be written and implemented and in use to become standards...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Come on baby light my fire...
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to mark lewis on Mon Nov 21 00:54:10 2016
    -={ 2016-11-20 19:54:11.221280606-05:00 }=-

    Hey mark!

    proposals cannot become standards until they are in widespread use

    How many more years? I seem to recall hacking 2.2 in order to exchange pkts with an upstream node around a decade ago or so. As per what I posted regarding that type is more or less what I've been using all these years except
    I had to make some blind changes to get it to work with a more recent link. However seeing that type 2 works with it, and is documented - albiet not called
    type 2 in the standard - I'd be inclined to make that the default. That seems to be the wisest move. No?

    Anyhow, I'll hold off for now as I hate to break a working system, despite 'working' being a relative term. :-/

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Heald hordlocan, hyge f|aste bind mid modsefan.
    Hold close the treasure-chest, bind your thoughts fast within the heart. --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Sun Nov 20 21:55:10 2016

    21 Nov 16 00:54, you wrote to me:

    proposals cannot become standards until they are in widespread use

    How many more years?

    the problem, in this case, is that this is the 3rd incarnation of the FTSC... the 1st one just went to sleep and never woke up again... a 2nd one was spawned
    several years later and made a decent attempt but it, too, fell asleep... this 3rd attempt has been doing OK but one ""problem"" is that all the proposals that were on the desk were swept off the desk into the reference library so as to clear the desk and have a better visual sight on what needed to be done... why previous proposals have not been trotted back out yet is above my pay grade
    AFAIK...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Recognize my authority lest you recognize my wrath.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Maurice Kinal on Mon Nov 21 05:04:36 2016
    Hello Maurice!

    15 Nov 2016 20:19, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    It would be MUCH cheaper to just buy it in Denmark. Also it is
    probably cheaper for you to fly to Scotland and buy it there.

    it would be like snowballs outside of danmark

    Have you ever been to Scotland?

    i have yes, seen a alumimium factory running on water powered electrory, it was
    impressive to see how co2 neotral it was


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/4.8.9-gentoo (i686))
    * Origin: openvpn on its way here (2:230/0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to mark lewis on Mon Nov 21 03:49:30 2016
    -={ 2016-11-20 22:49:31.856487810-05:00 }=-

    Hey mark!

    this 3rd attempt has been doing OK

    From this angle they look just as sleepy as past ones and it looked like they'd
    sleep right through the usual election. Fairly tame in comparison to past ones.

    why previous proposals have not been trotted back out yet is
    above my pay grade AFAIK...

    Understood. I can wait a couple of weeks, perhaps until the new year if needed. Maybe then someone will drag out the proposal I last saw and perhaps we can decipher something half-ass useful out of it. ;-)

    Good thing I am in no rush, and like the ftsc, am going nowhere fast. :::evil grin:::

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Longa|# |+onne |+y l|as |+e him con leo|+a worn.
    He is less troubled by longing who knows many songs.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Benny Pedersen on Mon Nov 21 04:29:18 2016
    -={ 2016-11-21 05:29:18.926941108+01:00 }=-

    Hey Benny!

    it would be like snowballs outside of danmark

    Huh? I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, nevermind what it has to do
    with 15 year old single malt scotch.

    i have yes, seen a alumimium factory

    Smelting aluminum requires large amounts of electricity.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Ne beo |+u no to t|alende, ne to tweospr|ace.
    Do not be too quick to disparage, nor too double-tongued.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Mon Nov 21 20:29:16 2016

    21 Nov 16 03:49, you wrote to me:

    this 3rd attempt has been doing OK

    From this angle they look just as sleepy as past ones and it looked
    like they'd sleep right through the usual election. Fairly tame in comparison to past ones.

    :)

    why previous proposals have not been trotted back out yet is above my
    pay grade AFAIK...

    Understood. I can wait a couple of weeks, perhaps until the new year
    if needed. Maybe then someone will drag out the proposal I last saw
    and perhaps we can decipher something half-ass useful out of it. ;-)

    if i had been more awake, i would have proposed that you be nominated to fill one of the positions... you would bring a yuge ray of light to the table...

    Good thing I am in no rush, and like the ftsc, am going nowhere fast. :::evil grin:::

    all the more reason for you to join in the fun! ;)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - Confucius
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to mark lewis on Tue Nov 22 03:23:58 2016
    -={ 2016-11-21 22:23:58.205126617-05:00 }=-

    Hey mark!

    i would have proposed that you be nominated

    What have I ever done to you? ;-)

    all the more reason for you to join in the fun!

    I have done that in the past. At the moment I am distracted with getting a handle on stuff I have a direct influence over such as the type 2, 2+ and 2.2 data vectors I posted to you. Speaking of which I changed the 2+ one's I specifier to a4 (ascii string) from I (32 bit integer) and now see XPKT show up
    on a certain node's type 2+ data vector. I like the ascii data vectors. :-)

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Lyt monna wear|+ lange f|agen |#|as |#e he o|#erne bewrenc|+.
    Few men rejoice long in what they have got by deceiving others.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.0(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Tue Nov 22 20:22:46 2016

    22 Nov 16 03:23, you wrote to me:

    i would have proposed that you be nominated

    What have I ever done to you? ;-)

    :LOLOLOL:

    all the more reason for you to join in the fun!

    I have done that in the past. At the moment I am distracted with
    getting a handle on stuff I have a direct influence over such as the
    type 2, 2+ and 2.2 data vectors I posted to you. Speaking of which I changed the 2+ one's I specifier to a4 (ascii string) from I (32 bit integer) and now see XPKT show up on a certain node's type 2+ data
    vector. I like the ascii data vectors. :-)

    i hear that... one thing that i'd like to see, which is right up your alley, would be something possibly implementing one of the Type 3 packet proposals... i seem to recall also a Type 10 proposal but i'm not sure that is not a play on
    Type 2 but in binary... anyway, at least one of the Type 3 proposals was all text oriented, IIRC...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... In France it is next to impossible to get decent Mexican food.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to mark lewis on Wed Nov 23 02:54:08 2016
    -={ 2016-11-22 21:54:09.764953866-05:00 }=-

    Hey mark!

    one of the Type 3 packet proposals... i seem to recall also a
    Type 10 proposal

    I noticed all those as well as an early proposal (1990's) as to a straight ascii pkt header but I don't recall if any 'type' was mentioned in that one.

    at least one of the Type 3 proposals was all text oriented

    I saw that. What might be of greater interest would be a utf-8 one based on a text oriented pkt header although I think it would have to be more in line with
    type 2.2 simply because of the domain names which is the only data I saw that potentially could benefit from such a thing methinks. Same with nodelist which
    has sysop and BBS names.

    Definetly something to think about but in the meantime I believe the better distraction would be to see official documentation for the currently used pkt headers. Of those I see type 2.2 being the best simply because of the lack of a questionable datetime stamp.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Se cr|aft |+|as lareowdomes bi|# cr|aft ealra cr|afta.
    The art of teaching is the art of all arts.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.5(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Maurice Kinal on Thu Nov 24 10:57:20 2016

    23 Nov 16 02:54, you wrote to me:

    Definetly something to think about but in the meantime I believe the better distraction would be to see official documentation for the currently used pkt headers. Of those I see type 2.2 being the best
    simply because of the lack of a questionable datetime stamp.

    i agree that the existing type 2.2 and 2+ proposals should be elevated to standards...

    the timestamp thing in the packet headers of type 2 and 2+? they don't bother me either way... the purpose of the timestamps in the packet headers, AFAIK, is
    to aid in determining when a packet was built on the originating system... this
    may allow a tosser to skip processing packets that are "too old" by its settings... in other words, a faster way to skip "too old messages" but it would really only come into play if a system has been down for some time and then comes back online... the timestamp may also make it easier for the originating to track the logs at that period and see what errors may have been generated during that packet's creation... not being UTC oriented or carrying any UTC offset doesn't really matter as the operator of the originating system should be able to determine what his clock is set to... the receipient of the packet shouldn't care about the packet's internal timestamp unless they are using it for a "too old" option or they are reporting a problem about that packet to the originating system...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Praise to the chile gods for giving us Habaneros.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to mark lewis on Thu Nov 24 18:06:20 2016
    -={ 2016-11-24 13:06:21.200764272-05:00 }=-

    Hey mark!

    i agree that the existing type 2.2 and 2+ proposals should be
    elevated to standards

    For at least the last 10 years 2+ is the most commonly used pkt type from what I have seen. Only lately have I been adventerous enough to try 2.2 and it worked 100% until one node 'upgraded' his software. Mind you when he did that then type 2 started working again ... if indeed it wasn't working before. I am
    not sure since I have gotten used to it being broken and unsupported for at least 10-ish years or so. :-/

    the timestamp thing in the packet headers of type 2 and 2+?

    Yes. They both are based on the 1-11 month ala the localtime() function (tm_mon). Personally I could easily live without it.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Onwald m|ag wel reccean se |+e |ag|#er ge hiene habban con ge wi|#winnan.
    He wields power well who can both hold and resist it.
    --- GNU bash, version 4.4.5(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)