Hey Benny!

Amiga will only have EMSI

Any decent Linux based fidonet software doesn't require EMSI even on a regular serial port modem. Good luck finding a working serial port modem these days. USB modems are a more likely target and for those there are kernel modules that
should work just fine. Also they should have no issues with binkd and possibly
other binkp capable software. No abandonware required.

As for Amiga there isn't a linux distribution for them so it really isn't worth
persuing. A computer without linux isn't worth wasting electricity on methinks.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Maurice!

12 Nov 17 17:14, you wrote to Benny Pedersen:

Hey Benny!

Amiga will only have EMSI

Any decent Linux based fidonet software doesn't require EMSI even on a regular serial port modem. Good luck finding a working serial port
modem these days. USB modems are a more likely target and for those
there are kernel modules that should work just fine. Also they should have no issues with binkd and possibly other binkp capable software.
No abandonware required.

You can find a USR Courier 56K (Serial modem) on e-bay for about $20 US. good serial modems are out there.

As for Amiga there isn't a linux distribution for them so it really
isn't worth persuing. A computer without linux isn't worth wasting electricity on methinks.

There are some older distros that run on amigas but they're incredibly difficult to get working correctly, and you have to hand configure just about everything to make it work right. I can't think of one good reason why you would want to toss Linux on an Amiga other than the bragging rights of "I did it!"

Mike


... Purranoia: the fear one's cats are up to something.
=== GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20161221
--- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
* Origin: War Ensemble - warensemble.com - Appleton, WI (1:154/30)

Hey Mike!

It has been awhile since I've 'seen' you. Where have you been hiding?

You can find a USR Courier 56K (Serial modem) on e-bay for about
$20 US. good serial modems are out there.

I saw them advertised on amazon but they were out of stock and didn't know when
they would be back in stock. Back in the 1990's I definetly preferred external
serial port modems and the last one I had working on linux was a motorola but I
forget which model. It was rock solid and never needed EMSI given that even back then it was already considered abandonware in this part of the world.

I can't think of one good reason why you would want to toss Linux
on an Amiga other than the bragging rights of "I did it!"

Sure. Anyhow no working amiga here and I seriously doubt there ever will be. Other than bragging rights I don't see the point given all the vastly better alternatives. As for usb serial connections I have a working usb gps unit I am
planning to take 'socat' out for a spin. I was just using straight 'cat' to a terminal but after reading about the ssl capabilities of 'socat' I thought it might be interesting to try forwarding NMEA sentences to the wireless network just "because I can". No Amiga required. ;-)

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Maurice!

12 Nov 2017 17:14, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

As for Amiga there isn't a linux distribution for them so it really
isn't worth persuing. A computer without linux isn't worth wasting electricity on methinks.

so why do you have a raspberry pi ? :=)

it can run UAE

i just say EMSI was first, long time before the kids of BINKP protocol came out

there is no waste other then BINKP


Regards Benny

... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/4.12.12-gentoo (i686))
* Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)

Hello Mike!

12 Nov 17 11:49, you wrote to Maurice Kinal:

Any decent Linux based fidonet software doesn't require EMSI even
on a regular serial port modem. Good luck finding a working
serial port modem these days. USB modems are a more likely
target and for those there are kernel modules that should work
just fine. Also they should have no issues with binkd and
possibly other binkp capable software. No abandonware required.

You can find a USR Courier 56K (Serial modem) on e-bay for about $20
US. good serial modems are out there.

Got a bunch of Zyxel 1496E modems for between 5.- and 10.- EUR on Ebay.

As for Amiga there isn't a linux distribution for them so it
really isn't worth persuing. A computer without linux isn't
worth wasting electricity on methinks.

There are some older distros that run on amigas but they're
incredibly difficult to get working correctly, and you have to hand configure just about everything to make it work right. I can't think
of one good reason why you would want to toss Linux on an Amiga other
than the bragging rights of "I did it!"

Erm, although Debian 68k is not anymore part of the official Debian releases, the port is still alive and kicking! Currently there are plans to do a Debian 68k developer meeting in Germany next year.
At the moment there are efforts ongoing to fix some broken drivers and/or port a driver for the X-Surf 100 NIC.

So, it's not true that there is no distro for Amigas (or m68k computers). It's true that there might be some challenges when you want to make a new install on
Amigas.

I've been contributing to Debian 68k for about 15 years with like 4x 060 and 1x
040 Amigas.

Ingo


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5--b20170303
* Origin: AmigaXess - back in FidoNet after 17 years (2:2452/413)

Hey Benny!

so why do you have a raspberry pi ? :=)

I used to have one but I gave it to my eldest grandson who seemed to be more inspired by it then I was. When I was playing with it I did manage to get a 64
bit kernel and apps working (gcc and friends). No serial ports on there so it would have required either a usb modem or a usb serial port adapter to get an external serial modem working with. Having no regular telephone landline I fail to see why spending money and wasting limited resources would be something
that would interest anyone. Also I doubt the 64 bit customized linux I built for a raspi3 would have worked on an amiga nevermind the modem.

i just say EMSI was first

You mean with Fidonet? Most of my serisl based communications back then were with a proton precession magnetometer it was wired to a serial port on a 286. No EMSI handshaking that I recall but instead kermit running from a 5.25" floppy drive. Back then for Fidonet I was connecting to a DEC (VAX/VMS) server
running a BBS either using a 4800 baud modem (cutting edge at the time) from a home based 386 or a dumb terminal using telnet to interact with the echobases.
I doubt the BBS was using EMSI at all but I don't know that for sure. That would have been the late 1980's to early 1990's just before the network dropped
the DEC server in favour of Sparc stations. Not a single Amiga was ever deployed in that particular network which was connected via the internet to the
world. I suspect the VAX/VMS BBS was using that connection for exchanging Fidonet pkt's and was unlikely using EMSI or even a serial port but I don't that for sure.

there is no waste other then BINKP

Sure. I could live without it. Same with EMSI. How about you?

Speaking of which how about a ssl based protocol? Optimally It could use whatever hardware connection you can think of including a serial port external modem if that is all you have for connectivity. Personally I don't and neither
does anyone locally in this part of the world. There is good reason it is all abandonware including (especially) EMSI.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Benny!

12 Nov 17 19:33, you wrote to Maurice Kinal:

i just say EMSI was first, long time before the kids of BINKP protocol came out

there is no waste other then BINKP

First there was what was later called diet Ifna or something like that.
Later people developed more intricate protocols to work over a serial
line connection. EMSI was introduced to negociate the most usefull
common protocoll.

If only telnet or maybe even raw was used to carry existing serial protocols
the EMSI would come in usefull. IP connections use different port numbers
for different protocols, so no negociation is required after connecting.
BINKP uses a defined port number and the protocol is optimised for IP
connections and only that protocol. There is no need to add EMSI to
negociate that BINKP is the most usefull protocol for that connection, it
is already known and selected.

Kees

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)

Hello Ingo!

12 Nov 2017 19:43, Ingo Juergensmann wrote to Mike Miller:

I've been contributing to Debian 68k for about 15 years with like 4x
060 and 1x 040 Amigas.

+1

----- make.defaults begins -----
# Copyright 1999-2014 Gentoo Foundation
# Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2

ARCH="m68k"
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="m68k ~m68k"

CHOST="m68k-unknown-linux-gnu"
CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe"
CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"
FFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"
FCFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"

# Micha+e G||rny <mgorny@gentoo.org> (01 Jul 2014)
# Set ABI & DEFAULT_ABI consistently with ${ARCH}, to make ebuild
# checks simpler.
ABI="m68k"
DEFAULT_ABI="m68k"
MULTILIB_ABIS="m68k"
LIBDIR_m68k="lib"
CHOST_m68k="${CHOST}"

# Disable sandbox on this architecture
FEATURES="-sandbox"
----- make.defaults ends -----

----- package.use.force begins -----
# Copyright 1999-2016 Gentoo Foundation
# Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2

# Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> (16 Mar 2015)
# Needs dev-lang/luajit tested #499974
dev-libs/efl oldlua

# Ulrich M|+ller <ulm@gentoo.org> (10 Aug 2013)
# Building from source requires TeX Live as dependency
app-doc/pms binary
----- package.use.force ends -----

----- package.use.mask begins -----
# Copyright 1999-2015 Gentoo Foundation
# Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2

# Micha+e G||rny <mgorny@gentoo.org> (08 Aug 2017)
# Requires USE=seccomp that is masked in this profile.
net-libs/gnutls test-full

# Matt Turner <mattst88@gentoo.org> (25 Feb 2017)
# Needs libepoxy keywording, bug #510940
x11-base/xorg-server glamor wayland
x11-drivers/xf86-video-ati glamor

# Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> (16 Mar 2015)
# Needs sci-physics/bullet tested #499974
dev-libs/efl physics

# Mikle Kolyada <zlogene@gentoo.org> (11 Jul 2013)
# Tests for dev-perl/Error require >=dev-perl/Test-Pod-Coverage-1.40.0 (bug #351636)
dev-perl/Error test

# Ra||l Porcel <armin76@gentoo.org> (23 Jan 2013)
# Architecture is unsupported
dev-libs/libpcre jit

# Ryan Hill <dirtyepic@gentoo.org> (20 Jul 2011)
# graphite requires dev-libs/ppl & dev-libs/cloog-ppl
# (bugs #269087 and #269088)
sys-devel/gcc graphite awt

# Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> (10 Feb 2011)
# Waiting for keywording #354309
net-firewall/iptables netlink

# Diego Petten|# <flameeyes@gentoo.org> (10 Nov 2007)
# Tests for Linux-PAM 0.99 require >=sys-libs/glibc-2.4

=sys-libs/pam-0.99.8 test

# Masking these to keep repoman happy
media-gfx/graphviz perl
----- package.use.mask ends -----

----- packages begins -----
# Copyright 1999-2011 Gentoo Foundation.
# Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2

*sys-fs/atari-fdisk
----- packages ends -----

----- parent begins -----
../base
----- parent ends -----

----- use.force begins -----
# Force the flag which corresponds to ARCH.
m68k
----- use.force ends -----

----- use.mask begins -----
# Copyright 1999-2017 Gentoo Foundation.
# Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License, v2

# Unmask the flag which corresponds to ARCH.
-m68k

# James Le Cuirot <chewi@gentoo.org> (29 Jun 2017)
# Unmask as this profile is big endian.
-big-endian

hardened

# Paul de Vrieze <pauldv@gentoo.org>
# There is no java in this profile (if there is it must be available). Without # this repoman will fail on apps like sys-libs/db
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# see email to gentoo-dev with subject "use.mask and PHP5's crazy IUSE"
# Dated Sat, 31 Jul 2004 14:49:28 -0700, from robbat2@gentoo.org
# all of these are binary-only, and not presently available on this
# architecture.
php
djbfft
qdbm

emacs
xemacs

gnome-keyring
afs
tcl
tk
ldap
slang
diet
gtk
qt4
mono
python
cairo
svg
X
crypt
mysql
samba
dbus
xpm
ruby
ocaml
guile
lua
djvu
nss
diet
emf
R
octave
bluetooth
autotrace
lqr
policykit
bash-completion
latex
nettle
systemd
tk
clang

# USE=audit masked prior to testing on alpha, arm, hppa, ppc64, s390, sh.
# Bug #184563, 18 Sep 2007
# Robin H. Johnson <robbat2@gentoo.org>
audit

# Masking since dev-db/sqlite is masked
sqlite

# Masking these globally, since we don't have X
gnome
gnome-keyring
pango

# Masking since net-dns/avahi and net-misc/mDNSResponder are masked
avahi
zeroconf

# Samuli Suominen <ssuominen@gentoo.org> (18 Jan 2013)
# libdlm and cman are not keyworded
cman
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# Ch|!-Thanh Christopher Nguyb+an <chithanh@gentoo.org> (22 Aug 2013)
# virtual/opencl is not keyworded
opencl

# Unmask once sys-libs/libunwind gets ported & keyworded.
unwind

# sys-libs/libseccomp has not been ported to this arch yet #524148
seccomp
----- use.mask ends -----

too much precompiled on amiga :(


Regards Benny

... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/4.12.12-gentoo (i686))
* Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)

Hey Benny!

too much precompiled on amiga :(

I noticed the same for Debian and other m68k distributions. An alternative would be to build a cross-compiled toolchain which I'd assume these days to be a x86_64 host. If so it would require multilib or a straight 32-bit boot on the host machine to pull it off. I see at least one example found at https://github.com/cahirwpz/amigaos-cross-toolchain.

Just out of curiousity which Amiga model do you have? I can't find a singly working one anywhere but have run across a few people emulating on modern x86's
just to play games.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Maurice!

18 Nov 2017 08:15, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

Hey Benny!

too much precompiled on amiga :(

I noticed the same for Debian and other m68k distributions.

most developments are on debian, and childs like amiga arch follow some time, sadly

An
alternative would be to build a cross-compiled toolchain which I'd
assume these days to be a x86_64 host.

that would be fail

If so it would require
multilib or a straight 32-bit boot on the host machine to pull it off.
I see at least one example found at https://github.com/cahirwpz/amigaos-cross-toolchain.

thats the way, bootstrap is okay on another computer, but the boot strap should
be recompiled on real hardware

Just out of curiousity which Amiga model do you have?

plenti :)

a1000
a2000
a3000
a4000
a4000t
a500
a600
a1200
cd32

and emulator friends :)

most of the above is 68000 cpu and other of them is minimal 68020, and 68030, 68060

a600 would have being a good computer it there was more memory in it pr default, and it could flash update kickstarts roms

I can't find a
singly working one anywhere but have run across a few people emulating
on modern x86's just to play games.

i dont play games :=)

----- gcc.ebuild begins -----
[I] sys-devel/gcc
Available versions:
(2.95.3) [M]~2.95.3-r10^s
(3.3.6) [M]~3.3.6-r1^s
(3.4.6) [M]3.4.6-r2^s
(4.0.4) [M]**4.0.4^s
(4.1.2) [M]4.1.2^s
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(4.3.6) [M]4.3.6-r1^s
(4.4.7) [M]4.4.7^s
(4.5.4) [M]4.5.4^s
(4.6.4) [M]4.6.4^s
(4.7.4) [M]4.7.4^s
(4.8.5) [M]4.8.5^s
(4.9.4) 4.9.4^s
(5.4.0) 5.4.0-r3^s
(6.3.0) ~6.3.0^s
(6.4.0) 6.4.0^s
(7.2.0) ~7.2.0^s
{altivec awt boundschecking cilk +cxx d debug doc fixed-point +fortran gcj go graphite hardened jit libssp mpx mudflap multilib +nls nopie nossp +nptl
objc objc++ objc-gc +openmp +pch pgo +pie regression-test +sanitize +ssp vanilla +vtv}
Installed versions: 6.4.0(6.4.0)^s(06:22:39 20-11-2017)(cxx nptl openmp pch sanitize ssp vtv -altivec -awt -cilk -debug -doc -fixed-point -fortran -gcj
-go -graphite -hardened -jit -libssp -mpx -multilib -nls -objc -objc++ -objc-gc
-pgo -pie -regression-test -vanilla)
Homepage: https://gcc.gnu.org/
Description: The GNU Compiler Collection

----- gcc.ebuild ends -----

----- gcc.qlop.time begins -----
gcc: 12630 seconds average for 6 merges
----- gcc.qlop.time ends -----

work space used was just 1.8GB while compile it :=)


Regards Benny

... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/4.12.12-gentoo (i686))
* Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)

Hey Benny!

most developments are on debian, and childs like amiga arch follow
some time, sadly

So I've noticed. That's one of the reasons I started to grow my own way back when.

alternative would be to build a cross-compiled toolchain which
I'd assume these days to be a x86_64 host.

that would be fail

Probably. However I heard the same thing about a pure 64-bit cross-compiler for raspi3 and managed to pull it off. A native aarch64 was created on the raspi3 using a slackwarearm as the initial boot/root system using a replacement
up to date kernel that was cross-compiled on a x86_64. However after reading about the amiga I have a feeling you are probably right about it failing.

the boot strap should be recompiled on real hardware

Agreed. I've always believed that if a computer can't take care of itself it isn't worth booting up in the first place.

plenti :)

Do you actually use any of them, and if so, for what purpose?

i dont play games :=)

Same here.

work space used was just 1.8GB while compile it

Did you do that on any of your amiga's? If so how did you manage to provide the work space needed? Also, also why all the languages? For gcc-6.4.0 all it
needs is gcc and g++.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)