Aa?oNr, All!

a<b><na IT--? o<>a<b -a- np4aNrN, aNa2%!< 2? ?4><ar<oa4NoN!?N o IT o E<bb?-b-<-
oNnNaau???


a< !<ooo obraNt! Fedor Mirchev
... Win ><-!r--<4>2N-r epi?-!!! (1,7)
--- SimpleX 'Next' 0.49
* Origin: e !ata2N io2< b2<o<. e -<!uN ipnNr <a?na?!.(a) (2:5020/723.24)

Good ${greeting_time}, Fedor!

09 Feb 2017 19:36:28, you wrote to All:


2 all: colleagues, I'd deal with this issue.

a<b><na IT--? o<>a<b -a- np4aNrN, aNa2%!< 2? ?4><ar<oa4NoN!?N o IT o E<bb?-b-<- oNnNaau???

0. UobraN!%-< <r>?*?b% <rbEna ? o>aNn% !N ><nbrao2N- i<bba.
1. Aaou<4 4aa* o RU.LINUX
2. Aa4 0r< r<aN !N b<obN4 o rN4p, !< o<rN io o >aNnN2ao n<>pbr?4<u<.


2 all: thanks for your patience and sorry for this jerk.


--
Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-cmlxxvii-mmxlviii

... god@universe:~ # cvs up && make world
--- /bin/vi
* Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)

-={ 2017-02-09 22:17:25.830026855+03:00 }=-

Hey Alexey!

thanks for your patience

As per usual, there is never any rush. Speaking for myself it is no worse than
silly people believing that cp437 is upper/higher ascii and spreading that crappy encoding around for the last 30 years or so.

Mind you that isn't really saying much since cp866 is just as lame as cp437 as well as all the rest of the 8 bit encodings while we're at it.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.5(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello, Maurice Kinal.
On 09/02/2017 7.17 PM you wrote:

-={ 2017-02-09 22:17:25.830026855+03:00 }=- Hey Alexey!

thanks for your patience

As per usual, there is never any rush. Speaking for myself it is
no worse than silly people believing that cp437 is upper/higher
ascii and spreading that crappy encoding around for the last 30
years or so.

or pretend unicode is better then cp437, when clients only understand cp437

me hide here

Mind you that isn't really saying much since cp866 is just as lame
as cp437 as well as all the rest of the 8 bit encodings while
we're at it.

thats why i think hotdoged could remove that charset settings and replace internal code to deal with best matching charset to be anounced, yes i know android have unicode, so what ? :)

... Don't cry for me I have vi.

i have android :)

--
Best regards!
Posted using Hotdoged on Android 6 (Denver)
--- Hotdoged/2.12/Android
* Origin: i feel like home here (2:230/38.1)

-={ 2017-02-11 00:43:56.118431892+01:00 }=-

Hey Benny!

or pretend unicode is better then cp437, when clients only
understand cp437

That is just plain sad.

i have android

I feel your pain.

Life is good,
Maurice

... H|ale sceal wisf|ast ond gemetlice, modes snottor.
A man should be firm in wisdom and moderate, prudent in mind.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hi, Alexey!

09 ENo 17 21:21, Alexey Vissarionov -> Fedor Mirchev:

2 all: colleagues, I'd deal with this issue.

Is it forbidden here to write in another codepage? I did'nt found a corresponding rule in the last "Automated monthly link check/echo rules". Furthermore - I had no response about my doubts on the official language of this echo. But I'm not arguing - after all I'm new here. Maybe there are rules I just don't know yet.

Maybe there is a reason to make a "foolproof"-script which checks the charset and eliminates such "issues". Or the soft way - simply sends a warning to the violator?

Best wishes, Maxim.

--- -Natural gas is hemispheric.
* Origin: We're concerned about AIDS in our White House... (2:5020/570.35)

-={ 2017-02-11 10:20:11.487969397+00:00 }=-

Hey Maxim!

Maybe there is a reason to make a "foolproof"-script which checks
the charset and eliminates such "issues".

I'd like to see that, especially when the codepage cannot be determined or falsely advertised which happens all the time. For example I have seen Russian
webpages where the encoding was advertised as KOI8-R and was really CP-1251 which are totally different as far as code values are concerned.

I believe "foolproof" is impossible in this case especially when the people responsible for standards are clueless to what the standards actually are, and are writing bogus ones that cause even more incompatibilty than if they completely stayed away from writing "standards".

Life is good,
Maurice

... Jag har ekorrar i mina byxor!
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Maxim,

On Sat Feb 11 2017 11:07:30, Maxim Romanenkov wrote to Alexey Vissarionov:

Is it forbidden here to write in another codepage? I did'nt found a

No, it's not forbidden. However the codepage the original author used was not given using a CHRS kludge. So 99.9% of others were not able to read it.

corresponding rule in the last "Automated monthly link check/echo
rules". Furthermore - I had no response about my doubts on the
official language of this echo. But I'm not arguing - after all I'm
new here. Maybe there are rules I just don't know yet.

I'm not sure if there's an official language or not, and by all means if you wish to speak another go for it. But it would be great if the proper CHRS kludge was deployed so that others can read the conversation too, if so desired.

Maybe there is a reason to make a "foolproof"-script which checks the charset and eliminates such "issues". Or the soft way - simply sends a warning to the violator?

Not sure if anyone needs to go that far. It seems just letting the person know what they can do to not make it an issue any more has been working for the most
part. After all, this network is all about communication, language barriers or not.

Regards,
Nick

... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20161221
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hello Maurice!

10 Feb 2017 23:43, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

or pretend unicode is better then cp437, when clients only
understand cp437

That is just plain sad.

indeed the whole problem with 8bit was never a problem on commodore 64

but all silly new encodings are

i have android

I feel your pain.

its not a pain, its android


Regards Benny

... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/4.9.9-gentoo (i686))
* Origin: openvpn on its way here (2:230/0)

-={ 2017-02-11 16:48:12.977247254+01:00 }=-

Hey Benny!

problem with 8bit was never a problem on commodore 64

I wouldn't know, but then again how many commodore 64's are there in operation these days and how many are available to anyone wishing to pursue running ftn-ish capable software on it?

its android

I heard they are abandoning the 32 bit version.

Life is good,
Maurice

... God ana wat hw|at him weaxendum winter bringa|#.
Only God knows what the years will bring the growing child.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hi Maurice!

11 Feb 2017 15:48, from Maurice Kinal -> Benny Pedersen:

problem with 8bit was never a problem on commodore 64

I wouldn't know, but then again how many commodore 64's are there in operation these days and how many are available to anyone wishing to pursue running ftn-ish capable software on it?

I do not know ... but I find this a funny idea:
Using an ESP8266 to emulate an oldschool POTS modem.

http://www.cbmstuff.com/downloads/wimodem/wimodem_manual.pdf

It works incoming (telnet to a port on the ESP IP) and outgoing.

But I guess this is offtopic here ...

CU, Ricsi

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: A little truth helps the lie go down (2:310/31)

-={ 2017-02-11 18:08:05.159662994+01:00 }=-

Hey Richard!

http://www.cbmstuff.com/downloads/wimodem/wimodem_manual.pdf

Now that is just plain weird. Who these days even has a phoneline nevermind the Commodore 64? I guess someone has given the date on the pdf. :::shrugging
shoulders:::

But I guess this is offtopic here ...

That I wouldn't know. The last POTs modem I had working (late 1990's) was an external Motorola jobber. I forget the model. Always had problems with the pci winmodems and avoided them like the plague, especially considering Linux kernels.

I think the real question should be, does anyone care?

Life is good,
Maurice

... Dreamas sind gewitene, wunia|# |+a wacran ond |+|as woruld healda|+.
Joys are departed; weaker ones now live and hold the world.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

On 2017 Feb 11 17:08:04, you wrote to Richard Menedetter:

http://www.cbmstuff.com/downloads/wimodem/wimodem_manual.pdf

Now that is just plain weird. Who these days even has a phoneline nevermind the Commodore 64? I guess someone has given the date on the

pdf.

:::shrugging shoulders:::

we do over here... in fact there's two copper pairs providing traditional dialtone here... we also have two cellphones of the "flip phone" varity...


)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... The tin can was invented in 1810; the can opener in 1855.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hi Maurice!

11 Feb 2017 17:08, from Maurice Kinal -> Richard Menedetter:

http://www.cbmstuff.com/downloads/wimodem/wimodem_manual.pdf

Now that is just plain weird.

Same as using FTN technology in 2017 ;)

Who these days even has a phoneline

Me ... I do not use it, but there is a FXS port on my cable modem.
(I do not have a analog modem, but the emulated POTS phone port is there)

nevermind the Commodore 64?

I have more than one at home.
And I love them ;)

I guess someone has given the date on the pdf. :::shrugging
shoulders:::

Sorry ... do not get it.
This uses the ESP8266 WIFI chip, and was developed in 2016.

But I think you misunderstood.

This thing connects to the C64, and EMULATES a POTS modem.
In reality it goes over WiFi and uses telnet.

So you can use the C64 to connect to any telnet port (atdt192.168.0.254:23 connects to 192.168.0.254 on the telnet port, you can also connect to other servers like webservers etc.)

But I guess this is offtopic here ...

That I wouldn't know. The last POTs modem I had working (late 1990's)
was an external Motorola jobber.

It is not a POTS modem.
It uses the serial routines in the C64 kernal and its userport serial interface
to interface to a IEEE 802.11bgn WiFi.

I think the real question should be, does anyone care?

Yes, me ;)
And seemingly many more people, if you look at this thread: http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58889

CU, Ricsi

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case, Hmmm ... (2:310/31)

-={ 2017-02-11 15:53:35.329561079-05:00 }=-

Hey mark!

we do over here... in fact there's two copper pairs providing
traditional dialtone here

The last one in the neighbourhood (dialup to an isp) went down about a decade ago and never did have a Commodore 64 hooked up to it. I believe she had a pentium 4 or equivalent and never did fidonet. The only reason she had dialup was to hook up to online classes to handle {up,down}load class assignments. I am guessing that CP1252 was the default codepage which at that time was the default for windows whatever version she was using.

Also I am fairly certain it was one of those 56k pci modems that were fairly much considered abandonware at that time. The isp she used has long since gone
out of business.

Eventually one has to consider the true cost and worth of backwards compatibility and I seriously doubt any of us really needs to be compatible with 8 bit processors ... or their peripherals for that matter. It is curious though considering the hoops one has to jump through.

Life is good,
Maurice

... R|ad sceal mon secgan, rune writan, leo|+ gesingan, lofes gearnian.
One should give counsel, write secrets, sing songs, earn praise.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

-={ 2017-02-11 22:08:06.017552491+01:00 }=-

Hey Richard!

Same as using FTN technology in 2017

Heh, heh. Good point.

This uses the ESP8266 WIFI chip, and was developed in 2016.

Ah! Sorry I missed that point as I was distracted by the C64 idea in itself, nevermind how it connects.

Why the emulation? Why not just use the wifi as a wifi and save some grief?

Speaking of which the computer I am typing this message on has a RT3070 available to it that one neighbour uses as her connection to the outside world for her android based smart phone. Works like a charm for all her cyber data needs and requires zero emulation. No fidonet but if she wanted it I probably could make it work.

Having said this, the last time I setup Fidonet over wireless I was the only one using it and I didn't (still don't) have a need for it. This works great for my fidonet fix. Purely utf-8 but it can convert 8 bit encodings if I am bothered to. I did for the one that caused the latest flurry of msg's in this fine and upstanding echobase lovingly tagged as LINUX.

Life is good,
Maurice

... G|a|# a wyrd swa hio scel.
Fate ever goes as it must.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hi Maurice!

11 Feb 2017 21:08, from Maurice Kinal -> Richard Menedetter:

This uses the ESP8266 WIFI chip, and was developed in 2016.

Ah! Sorry I missed that point as I was distracted by the C64 idea in itself, nevermind how it connects.

No bad word about the C64!!
Or you get a mortal enemy here ;)))

Why the emulation? Why not just use the wifi as a wifi and save some grief?

Because the whole idea is to use the C64.
That does not have a way to cummincate to Wifi.
By emulating a POTS modem you can use the built in SW and HW interfaces. Actually it works really nicely, and people have developed "cloud services" for
it.
See http://commodoreserver.com/

CU, Ricsi

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: God heals, but always someone else wants a fee (2:310/31)

-={ 2017-02-12 13:49:03.385561623+01:00 }=-

Hey Richard!

No bad word about the C64!!

Not really unless you consider the fact that there is no such thing here to be a bad word(s). I imagine I could hack something wireless together at my end in
order for a C64 to get online but then that doesn't require me to actually have
or have use for one ... does it? To be honest I don't know why I'd want one.

Because the whole idea is to use the C64.

For what purpose? If for fidonet purposes, then I'd imagine there would need to a method to create 8 bit software for C64 or does that software already exist? If so then I am positive I could readily compensate for it so that it could connect to the world at large using it's wireless wired emulation although it would have to use an unsecure connection given the lack of suitable
native C64 encryption.

If not then I am not sure why we're talking about this.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Gold gerise|+ on guman sweorde... sinc on cwene.
Gold is fitting for a man's sword, precious things for a woman.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hi Maurice!

12 Feb 2017 12:49, from Maurice Kinal -> Richard Menedetter:

I imagine I could hack something wireless together at my end in order
for a C64 to get online but then that doesn't require me to actually
have or have use for one ... does it?

No it does not.
But it actually also does not hurt to actually DO use one.
The question is not why, the question is why not ;)

Same is true for projects like this: http://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/kim-uno-summary-c1uuh

One that you probably also ask WHY ... same reason as above.

To be honest I don't know why I'd want one.

That is OK ... you do not need to know everything ;)

We are all a different bunch ... some people collect stamps or play with BBSes in their spare time ... not everybody needs to understand everybody else's hobbies.

Because the whole idea is to use the C64.

For what purpose?

For the purpose of to show it is possible.
Or some other purpose ... it very much depends on the person.
I guess all of them have different motivations.

If for fidonet purposes, then I'd imagine there would need to a method
to create 8 bit software for C64 or does that software already exist?

Not that I know of.
It actually is not my cup of tea to do Fido on a C64.
That does not pull my strings, but maybe it does so for someone else.

If not then I am not sure why we're talking about this.

Because you brought up the topic, and I could not resist answering.
(but I did at least wrote that it is probably offtopic here)

So I guess now is a good point to make an end to this exchange, as you seem to seek for a subjective purpose in this where you obviously cannot see one.
So there does not seem to be one for you, and there is one for me ... that is fine.

CU, Ricsi

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Forget GUI's! Give me a C:\> and a keyboard (2:310/31)

Aa?oNrbropE, Maurice!

12 Feb 17 12:49, Maurice Kinal !a>?ba2(a) Richard Menedetter:

Because the whole idea is to use the C64.

For what purpose?

Does it really come as a surprise for you that there are lots of people all around the world who like to use/play/fiddle with retro home computers and videogame systems?

a !a?2pt*?4? ><aN2a!?N4?, Alexander.

--- i?!?N -- aaoaooa -- *ai2<!a ---
* Origin: https://www.linuxcounter.net/user/495771 (2:5030/722.68)

-={ 2017-02-12 17:17:32.258659599+01:00 }=-

Hey Richard!

The question is not why, the question is why not ;)

The answer is that I've never owned one even when they were available. Back then I didn't own any personal computer but instead was working with VAX/VMS machines. None of them were 8 bit btw. Also no Linux available then although I doubt that would have made any difference to me personally since the choice of OS was not mine to make. I did write software then but fortran was the default as opposed to C. I learned C later on Sparc machines.

http://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/kim-uno-summary-c1uuh

Sorry but the above doesn't work with text based browsers. Obviously the "obsolescence" is false advertising. ;-)

I guess all of them have different motivations.

The only thing I recall for 8 bit programming way back when was for things like
industrial switches, relays and the such. I never did work with things like that but was aware of their existance and probably even used such things without requiring writing software for them.

Because you brought up the topic

No I didn't. That was Benny who brought it up. I've never owned or used a C64
ever. I was aware of them, along with Atari's and Mac's. My first PC was a 386 which came later and by that time I bought a C compiler to take care of my needs for owning a PC since there was nothing readily available that I would have found useful.

That is my story and I am sticking to it. :::evil grin:::

Life is good,
Maurice

... Ear by|+ egle eorla gehwylcun.
The grave is a horror to every man.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

-={ 2017-02-12 16:46:49.143645256+00:00 }=-

Hey Alexander!

Does it really come as a surprise for you that there are lots of
people all around the world who like to use/play/fiddle with retro
home computers and videogame systems?

No it doesn't. However I would be surprised and probably impressed to see one in use for fidonet messaging especially a working C64 without it having a machine to take care of the shortcomings. Offhand I'd imagine that one would need a regular PC with something like yasm to write 8 bit assembly to take care
of writing software for a C64 if needed.

Have you ever written anything targetting a C64 or the like? If so can or could it use CP866 for messaging?

Life is good,
Maurice

... Wa |+|are |+eode |+e h|af|# |al|#eodigne cyng.
Woe will come to the nation which has a foreign king.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hi Maurice!

12 Feb 2017 16:17, from Maurice Kinal -> Richard Menedetter:

http://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/kim-uno-summary-c1uuh

Sorry but the above doesn't work with text based browsers.
Obviously the "obsolescence" is false advertising. ;-)

I do not think that running on lynx/links was a major design decision when he selected his content management system.

Luckily I do have non textmode browsers, and can copy you the first paragraph: "The KIM Uno is a small "open-source hardware" project to build a replica of the classic 1976 KIM-1 computer. It doubles up as a 6502 programmable calculator. It costs about $10 in commonly available parts (board & parts without case or power supply), but provides a faithful KIM-1 'experience'. An atMega328 (Arduino Pro Mini, actually) mounted on the back of the board contains all the logic and memory."

Because you brought up the topic

No I didn't. That was Benny who brought it up.

Yepp ... you are right ;)

I've never owned or used a C64 ever.

Well ... nobody is perfect.

That is my story and I am sticking to it. :::evil grin:::

;)))

CU, Ricsi

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Ever notice how fast Windows runs? Neither did I! (2:310/31)

Hi Maurice!

12 Feb 2017 16:46, from Maurice Kinal -> Alexander Suvorov:

However I would be surprised and probably impressed to see one in use
for fidonet messaging especially a working C64 without it having a
machine to take care of the shortcomings.

You have 64K of RAM.
By default many regions are overlayed with kernal and BASIC ROMs and by I/O space.
Also the default mass storage medium (5.25 inch disks) has only around 170 KB storage space.

Offhand I'd imagine that one would need a regular PC with something
like yasm to write 8 bit assembly to take care of writing software for
a C64 if needed.

There is also a C cross compiler for it:
http://cc65.github.io/cc65/

There are also some IDEs like this for example: https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/C64_Studio

CU, Ricsi

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: A Smith and Wesson beats four aces (2:310/31)

-={ 2017-02-12 23:03:04.689634484+01:00 }=-

Hey Richard!

I do not think that running on lynx/links was a major design
decision when he selected his content management system.

So I noticed. How does he square that shortcoming with the supposed target audience? While we are at it, how likely is a C64 able to render pdf documents
which is where you and I stepped into this particular issue which argueably has
nothing to do with where this all started. If I am not mistaken it had to do with 8 bit codepages, specifically CP866.

For the record, and having said the above, I personally don't mind the deviation in topic but would like to be clear that it has nothing to do with the original. If blame is required then obviously Benny should be the one to be taken back to the woodshed. No?

Yepp ... you are right

I usually am. :-)

Life is good,
Maurice

... Weor|#a |#e selfne godum d|adum, |#enden |#in God recce.
Bring honour to yourself with good deeds, while God guides you.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

-={ 2017-02-12 23:14:22.795757380+01:00 }=-

Hey Richard!

You have 64K of RAM.

<Esc>:read !free
total used free shared buff/cache available Mem: 4033044 67968 3850828 2348 114248 3787120 Swap: 0 0 0

Looks to me that I have FAR more than that. However I do know what you meant.

http://cc65.github.io/cc65/

I am guessing it is a crosscompiler which requires a more capable system. It isn't obvious on that page but given what you've posted so far about C64's I have to guess that is so. I see source code is available.

https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/C64_Studio

No thank you. It states (and I quote); PC (Windows, .NET)

No such critter here ... thank goodness. :::shudder:::

Life is good,
Maurice

... Leorna hw|athwugu |at |#am wisran, |+|at |+u m|age l|aran |+one unwisran.
Learn something from the wise, so you can teach the ignorant.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hi Maurice!

12 Feb 2017 22:03, from Maurice Kinal -> Richard Menedetter:

I do not think that running on lynx/links was a major design
decision when he selected his content management system.

So I noticed.
How does he square that shortcoming with the supposed target audience?

I do not know ... feel free to ask him.

While we are at it, how likely is a C64 able to render pdf documents

I assume it will be a near impossible task, as the PDF specification is huge ... and the C64 old and very limited.

There were desktop publishing programs.
Notable GeoPublish, which was able to print in postscript to a laser printer, and it had WYSIWYG albeit very slow.

A very short stub article is here, google will sure find more if you are interested:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeoPublish

CU, Ricsi

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: A thick head can do as much damage as a hard heart (2:310/31)

Hi Maurice!

12 Feb 2017 22:14, from Maurice Kinal -> Richard Menedetter:

http://cc65.github.io/cc65/

I am guessing it is a crosscompiler which requires a more capable
system.

Correct

https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/C64_Studio

No thank you. It states (and I quote); PC (Windows, .NET)

Correct again.
But one should not need more than an editor of ones choice and the above c compiler or a crossassembler like ca65 from the cc65 package or one of the many others like ACME.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/acme-crossass/

CU, Ricsi

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Watch where you go... remember where you've been... (2:310/31)

-={ 2017-02-13 00:29:09.072606573+01:00 }=-

Hey Richard!

I do not know ... feel free to ask him.

No thank you. I am not the one who needs to know seeing it is highly unlikely that I'll ever run across a working C64 nevermind program for one. My text browsers work 100% for what interests me out there in the cold, cruel world.

and the C64 old and very limited

I believe I already knew that without requiring any research into the matter. I believe Benny requires the education when he brought the subject up in the first place considering what the original post was about.

For the record I seem to recall saying that 'foolproof' was impossible when it comes to CP866 and the such. None of that had anything to do with C64's but since everyone seems to think it does then for sure it is impossible ... unless
of course someone like me makes it so. :::evil grin:::

which was able to print in postscript to a laser printer

No printer. Also I can read faster than a printer can print a document stating
totally useless information which is the most likely information contained in pdf documents. No?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeoPublish

I use vim.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Wena|# samwise |+|at hi on |#is l|anan m|agen life findan so|#a ges|al|#a.
The unwise think they can find true joy in this transitory life.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

-={ 2017-02-13 00:40:43.131891251+01:00 }=-

Hey Richard!

Correct
Correct again.

As per usual. :-)

Anyhow I already have a crosscompiler built for aarch64 which has yet to see a real target for. Also I think I'd rather go native with an ARMv8 processor, but to be honest but have yet to find what I think I am looking for. I am in no rush.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Ne beo |+u to oferspr|ace, ac hlyst |alces monnes worda swi|#e georne.
Don't speak too much, but listen attentively to everyone's words.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hi Maurice!

12 Feb 2017 23:29, from Maurice Kinal -> Richard Menedetter:

a document stating totally useless information which is the most
likely information contained in pdf documents. No?

According to my experience this entirely depends on the contents of the pdf docuemnt.

CU, Ricsi

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: There's no bad beer: some kinds are better than others (2:310/31)

-={ 2017-02-13 21:52:08.247332778+01:00 }=-

Hey Richard!

According to my experience this entirely depends on the contents
of the pdf docuemnt.

Exactly the same situation here. My experience thus far has been that there is
little to nothing that couldn't have been expressed in a text document at a fraction of the bytes as well as being far more compatible to almost every computer that has ever been including C64's.

As for graphics, I shake my head whenever I see that the graphic shown may not actually represent the item the pdf is supposed to be about. Often the pdf isn't even about the item one was enquiring or wondering about in the first place.

Having said that, every now and then someone actually writes a pdf that has value but it is vastly outweighed by volumes of crap. Then again it could have
been expressed in a plain good old fahioned text file and saved everyone, including the autor(s), a bunch of grief.

Your mileage may vary.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Gyfena gehwilc underb|ac besih|+.
Every gift looks backwards.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello, Alexander Suvorov.
On 12/02/2017 6.45 PM you wrote:

Because the whole idea is to use the C64.

For what purpose?

Does it really come as a surprise for you that there are lots of
people all around the world who like to use/play/fiddle with retro
home computers and videogame systems?

i have seen atari smart watch with retro games in that have even 8bit chars working better then fidonet codepages that pretend unicode just works in ftn networks

do we ever need more then 7bit to talk with canadiens ? :)

--
Best regards!
Posted using Hotdoged on Android 6 (Denver)
--- Hotdoged/2.12/Android
* Origin: i feel like home here (2:230/38.1)

-={ 2017-02-19 06:30:27.730932466+01:00 }=-

Hey Benny!

do we ever need more then 7bit to talk with canadiens ? :)

Kun de smarte dem.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Yrre oft amyrre|# monnes mod |+|at he ne m|ag |+|at riht gecnawan.
Anger often disturbs a man's mind so that he cannot see the right.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hej Maurice!

Sondag 19. Februar 2017 kl.05:30 skrev Maurice Kinal til Benny Pedersen:

do we ever need more then 7bit to talk with canadiens ? :)

Kun de smarte dem.

is the best you can write in google translate ?


Benny

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
* Origin: me at junc dot org (2:230/0)

-={ 2017-02-23 00:13:28.348657137+01:00 }=-

Hey Benny!

do we ever need more then 7bit to talk with canadiens ? :)

Kun de smarte dem.

is the best you can write in google translate ?

No it isn't. For example if I lived on the Gasp|- Peninsula I'd need U+00E9 in
order to properly spell Gasp|- and I've been aware of that simce long before Google even existed ... as well as the internet now that I think about it. Also labels, packaging, etc. is in both French and English in Canada so we have
a bit of an advantage there. Mind you we could get away with 8 bit characters to cover both English and French so utf-8 offers vastly more than what is required here in Canada.

Danish I have to look up though and there are letters in the Danish alphabet that require more than 7 bit characters. In all my life this far I've only run
across a few Danes in the real world. I've met far more Norwegians if that matters any.

Life is good,
Maurice

^-^-^-@@-^-^-^
(..)-----;
||---||
^^ ^^
... A M|+|+se once bit my sister ...
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Maurice!

Danish I have to look up though and there are letters in the Danish alphabet that require more than 7 bit characters. In all my life this far I've only run across a few Danes in the real world. I've met far more Norwegians if that matters any.

As far as I have noticed the Danes are dumbing down their notations to
7 bit characters. In many places the signs on the city boarders and
signposts are in two notations.

Kees

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)

-={ 2017-02-23 14:17:43.733928119+01:00 }=-

Hey Kees!

As far as I have noticed the Danes are dumbing down their
notations to 7 bit characters.

Do you mean like ISO-646 for Danish/Norwegian? That has been around for a long, long time now. In Canada there are two versions, one for English and the
other for French. I seriously doubt anyone uses either anymore if indeed either got any serious usage other than perhaps some silly gov't department(s).

Here is an interesting thought; What about the signage of Birobidzhan (-a-+-C-+-#-+-|-|-#-+)? What 7 or 8 bit encoding will cover Russian and Yiddish which are the most likely used and supported languages of that city? As far as I know it is one of the few places on this earth where Yiddish is still being officailly supported. Please don't quote me on that as I don't know for sure and am only speculating.

As for the Danes and 7 bit encodings I doubt they'll succeed internationally with that crippled idea. The Russians have a better shot at it with their CP866 crippleware albiet they threw in an extra bit.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Se |#e ear gife|# and eft oftih|#... bysmer he gewyrce|#.
He who gives and takes it back again does a shameful thing.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Maurice!

23 Feb 17 13:17, you wrote to me:

As far as I have noticed the Danes are dumbing down their
notations to 7 bit characters.

Do you mean like ISO-646 for Danish/Norwegian? That has been around for a long, long time now. In Canada there are two versions, one for English and the other for French. I seriously doubt anyone uses either anymore if indeed either got any serious usage other than perhaps some silly gov't department(s).

I took a shortcut in my wording, I meant to say that in publik signs for
e.g. city names, the start using the 26 character alphabeth, without the
umlauts, little o over the A, slashed O's or connected ae's.

Aabenraa or +benro

But after looking at the internet, I seem mistaken. Aabenraa seems to be the
local notation, +benro the preferred notation by the language board.

I can type the first notation with any typewriter, the second needs a special
version.

Neither notation helps me with the proper pronunciation.

Here is an interesting thought; What about the signage of Birobidzhan (-a-+-C-+-#-+-|-|-#-+)? What 7 or 8 bit encoding will cover Russian and Yiddish which are the most likely used and supported languages of that city? As far as I know it is one of the few places on this earth where Yiddish is still being officailly supported. Please don't quote me on that as I don't know for sure and am only speculating.

However you write it I cannot pronounce it and I cannot look for it in an
index of a Atlas. In every language there is or may be an official way to
translate these names. We would write Birobidzjan. For Paris we say Parijs,
Berlin is written and pronounced as Berlijn. etc.

As for the Danes and 7 bit encodings I doubt they'll succeed internationally with that crippled idea.

It was my impression, certainly not official.

The Russians have a better shot
at it with their CP866 crippleware albiet they threw in an extra bit.

If it suits them to make hardware with limited possibilities usefull to them,
then that is a way to do it. Make the smallest common denominator for all
languages and gliphs creates a behemoth with most of it never used.
That may be no problem with memory and available processing power, but it
was from were we came from, when saving bits was the norm.

Kees

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)

-={ 2017-02-23 16:29:55.555277781+01:00 }=-

Hey Kees!

Neither notation helps me with the proper pronunciation.

Nor does it help mixing iso-8859-1 with multibyte utf-8 characters. However I did manage to decypher them despite the software not liking the mixture. I suppose it could have been worse if you had used a crappy IBM/MS codepage. ;-)

However you write it I cannot pronounce it

Understood. I often have the same issue but will still press forward despite any personal limitations. I doubt it will do any good but I figure it cannot hurt any either considering the lack of use of these forums. After all someone
has to do it and I seem to be the only one brave enough to venture beyond my boundaries.

If it suits them to make hardware with limited possibilities
usefull to them

Which hardware would that be? I am not convinced there is a single person posting in this echo who is using hardware that has such limitations. The software on the otherhand is probably the weak link ... not to mention the lack
of imagination and spine of the monkey at the keyboard. :::evil grin:::

Life is good,
Maurice

... Gyfena gehwilc underb|ac besih|+.
Every gift looks backwards.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Maurice!

internationally with that crippled idea. The Russians have a better
shot at it with their CP866 crippleware albiet they threw in an extra
bit.

That's KOI8, not 866.
Basically KOI8 is still readable with 7-bits only

Vasily


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
* Origin: ----> Default GoldED Origin <---- (1:229/616)

-={ 2017-02-23 14:38:36.507922867-05:00 }=-

-u-|-C-#-#-U-e-#-a-|-e-| Vasily!

That's KOI8, not 866.

Actually it's UTF-8 but only from those who care enough to take the trouble.

I've never seen anyone use KOI8 characters in this echo before and still don't despite your claim. On the www I have seen at least one site claim KOI8-R when
it actually was CP1251 but that was ages ago. Beats me if they ever fixed it.

I don't see any KOI8 anymore. As a rule most Russian is CP866 in Fidonet and UTF-8 on the internet.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Eal |+|at |+u her sceawast hit is sceaduwa gelic, |all hit gewita|#.
All that you see here is like a shadow; it will all vanish.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Maurice!

I've never seen anyone use KOI8 characters in this echo before and
still don't despite your claim.

Because Fido uses 866 only.

On the www I have seen at least one
site claim KOI8-R when it actually was CP1251 but that was ages ago.

My claim was about 7-bits cyrrilic.
If you read 8-bits KOI8 in 7-bits, it's still readable, because most of characters are mapped to Latin intentionally there.

I don't see any KOI8 anymore. As a rule most Russian is CP866 in
Fidonet and UTF-8 on the internet.

You might see it in old text documents.
Also golded can't work with UTF-8. So, I have to use 866<->KOI8 translation and
use set KOI8 in terminal.

Vasily


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
* Origin: ----> Default GoldED Origin <---- (1:229/616)

-={ 2017-02-23 16:45:27.438173108-05:00 }=-

Hey Vasily!

Because Fido uses 866 only.

No it doesn't. I am not sure what the majority is today but it seems to me that plain old fashioned ASCII is still the winner. Some might argue CP437 but
to be honest I think those people are seriously delusional. :::snicker:::

If you read 8-bits KOI8 in 7-bits, it's still readable, because
most of characters are mapped to Latin intentionally there.

That is true of most of the 8 bit encodings, except that they map out to ASCII.
Heck even CP437 as well as CP866 can do that.

You might see it in old text documents.

Yes. It wasn't all that long ago that KOI8-R was the majority of text documents coming out of Russia and other places where Cyrillic was the default.
But that was then.

Also golded can't work with UTF-8.

You can configure it to use an external editor to take care of that handicap. Same with msged.

I have to use 866<->KOI8 translation and use set KOI8 in terminal.

I don't believe that you have to.

Life is good,
Maurice

... A sceal snotor hycgean ymb |+ysse worulde gewinn.
A wise person should always be thinking about this world's strife.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Maurice!

No it doesn't. I am not sure what the majority is today but it seems
to me that plain old fashioned ASCII is still the winner.

Huh? How would people talk in R50 without cyrrilic?
It is 866 and only 866. Like 25 years ago.

That is true of most of the 8 bit encodings, except that they map out
to ASCII. Heck even CP437 as well as CP866 can do that.

866 or CP1251 doesn't. E.g. 'U' in 7-bits will not be 'B'.

Yes. It wasn't all that long ago that KOI8-R was the majority of text documents coming out of Russia and other places where Cyrillic was the default.

Mostly CP1251 because Windows.

I don't believe that you have to.

Tell me a better way.

Vasily


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
* Origin: ----> Default GoldED Origin <---- (1:229/616)

-={ 2017-02-23 19:57:39.364092575-05:00 }=-

Hey Vasily!

It is 866 and only 866. Like 25 years ago.

I thought you said it was KOI8?

866 or CP1251 doesn't. E.g. '-a' in 7-bits will not be 'B'.

Of course not. '-a' in CP866 is 10000001, 11000001 in CP1251, and 11100010 in KOI8-R. Although different they all are 8 bit characters whereas 'B' is the 7 bit ASCII character 01000010. Exactly where do you see any '-a' mapping out to
'B'?

Mostly CP1251 because Windows.

Yes. Near as I can tell from this angle Russia had the same problem with Windows users as here in North America as far as getting codepages correct. UTF-8 vastly simplifies it as well as having the bonus of displaying multiple languages without having to change encodings. It is obviously superior to EVERYTHING including other Unicodes such as UTF-16 simply because it is 100% compatible with ASCII.

Tell me a better way.

You show me how the heck '-a' becomes 'B' first. You have my undivided attention.

I originally thought you meant that the 7 bit encodings in KOI8 matched ASCII which I believe they do. Same with CP866 and CP1251 though. Same same with UTF-8 while we're at it. 'B' is 01000010 in all of them and is never, ever '-a' in any of them. Your mileage may vary.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Hwylc bi|# se leasa freond? ...gefera to beode and na to neod|+earfe.
Who is a false friend? A friend at table, not in time of need.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

-={ 2017-02-24 01:30:19.830560747-05:00 }=-

Hey Vasily!

Huh? How would people talk in R50 without cyrrilic?

It occurs to me that we're talking about two different things. I am talking about fonts that get displayed on a monitor while I believe you might be talking about keymaps such as /usr/share/keymaps/i386/qwerty/us.map.gz which is
the keymap I happen to be using. I doubt it would be of much use to people in R50. However something like /usr/share/keymaps/i386/qwerty/ru.map.gz might be although I get the feeling it might be only useful to Russians that have an English QWERTY keyboard. I am not sure but maybe it will remap the 'B' key when pressed with Shift to the Cyrillic character '-a' in a UTF-8 enviroment. Also I see Russian keymaps that use KOI8-R instead of UTF-8 codes so perhaps that is what you're talking about. I wasn't so I hope that clears up the misunderstanding between us.

It looks to me that KOI8-R, CP866 and UTF-8 are all choices available to Russian users. I suspect that if I were a Russian sysop I'd be mapping out the
keyboard to UTF-8 characters since that is the present and future of text messaging. The fact that Russian Fidonet sysops are hanging onto CP866 comes as no surprise to me given that North American sysops have never gotten beyond CP437. It is indeed a very sad situation worldwide.

Tell me a better way.

I just did. It isn't easy but nothing worthwhile ever is easy. Is it any different in Russia? I seriously doubt that it is.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Eor|+an indryhto ealda|# ond seara|#, swa nu monna gehwylc.
The glory of earth ages and grows sere, as now every man does.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Maurice!

866 or CP1251 doesn't. E.g. '-a' in 7-bits will not be 'B'.

Of course not. '-a' in CP866 is 10000001, 11000001 in CP1251, and 11100010 in KOI8-R. Although different they all are 8 bit characters whereas 'B' is the 7 bit ASCII character 01000010. Exactly where do
you see any '-a' mapping out to 'B'?

Look like your have another translation in place becuase I see different character in my quote that I have placed.
It must be 'U' meaning 0xE2 in KOI and 0x81 in 8666.
0xE2 without highest bit is 0x42, that's 'B' representing the same character in
Latin

Vasily


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
* Origin: ----> Default GoldED Origin <---- (1:229/616)

Hello Maurice!

It occurs to me that we're talking about two different things. I am talking about fonts that get displayed on a monitor

No, I'm talking about fonts as well. Sure all of my fonts are UTF-8.

while I believe
you might be talking about keymaps such as /usr/share/keymaps/i386/qwerty/us.map.gz which is the keymap I happen
to be using. I doubt it would be of much use to people in R50.
However something like /usr/share/keymaps/i386/qwerty/ru.map.gz might
be although I get the feeling it might be only useful to Russians that have an English QWERTY keyboard. I am not sure but maybe it will
remap the 'B' key when pressed with Shift to the Cyrillic character
'-a' in a UTF-8 enviroment. Also I see Russian keymaps that use
KOI8-R instead of UTF-8 codes so perhaps that is what you're talking about. I wasn't so I hope that clears up the misunderstanding between
us.

Keymap is not an issue really. You just install additional keyboard character set and usually use left Alt+Shift to switch between them.

It looks to me that KOI8-R, CP866 and UTF-8 are all choices available
to Russian users. I suspect that if I were a Russian sysop I'd be
mapping out the keyboard to UTF-8 characters since that is the present
and future of text messaging. The fact that Russian Fidonet sysops
are hanging onto CP866 comes as no surprise to me given that North American sysops have never gotten beyond CP437. It is indeed a very
sad situation worldwide.

If you want to see how it looks in practice, we can establish direct link and you can get RU.* and SU.* echoes from my AreaFix.

Vasily


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
* Origin: ----> Default GoldED Origin <---- (1:229/616)

-={ 2017-02-24 10:45:59.650219266-05:00 }=-

Hey Vasily!

I see different character in my quote that I have placed.

Sorry about that and I promise to never do that again. I only do utf-8 characters here so I changed your CP866 character to the proper code for UTF-8 (U+0411). It is the only way it will work here.

0xE2 in KOI and 0x81 in 8666.

That matches what I see in those tables. However in my editor (vim) I see it as U+0411. I didn't quote your CP866 character above as it screws up the works
if I don't translate it to UTF-8.

Not being Russian it makes no sense to use any 8 bit character sets especially when they screw up the default language which is English and French here in Canada and for those I use UTF-8 which is the superior course of action. Funny
thing about that is it works 100% for Russian as well as other Cyrillic based languages. Why would anyone use anything else?

Life is good,
Maurice

... Feorcy|+|#e beo|# selran gesohte |+|am |+e him selfa deah.
Distant lands are best sought by one who is worthy in himself.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

-={ 2017-02-24 11:02:02.900407576-05:00 }=-

Hey Vasily!

Keymap is not an issue really. You just install additional
keyboard character set and usually use left Alt+Shift to switch
between them.

Sounds like a plan.

If you want to see how it looks in practice, we can establish
direct link and you can get RU.* and SU.* echoes from my AreaFix.

I've already seen them in the past. Nothing that iconv cannot handle as a read-only thing for me if needed. Personally I'd much rather see UTF-8 echoes but I do understand some peoples needs for limiting text messaging to the basic
targetted language, Russian in your case.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Dea|# bi|# sella eorla gehwylcum |+onne edwitlif.
Death is better for any warrior than a life of disgrace.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Maurice!

I've already seen them in the past. Nothing that iconv cannot handle
as a read-only thing for me if needed.

What if you need to write something back?

Personally I'd much rather see
UTF-8 echoes but I do understand some peoples needs for limiting text messaging to the basic targetted language, Russian in your case.

I would prefer to use UTF-8 as well, ecpecially no technical reason to not use it. 866 is just traditional coming from DOS's days and "real" fido. Nobody has a power to switch echoes to UTF-8.

P.S: I was trying to type French accents in 866. Doesn't work really. Only UTF-8 lets you do it.

Vasily


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
* Origin: ----> Default GoldED Origin <---- (1:229/616)

-={ 2017-02-24 15:33:16.160145367-05:00 }=-

Hey Vasily!

What if you need to write something back?

I doubt I would need to but if I did then I'd have to do a utf-8 -> cp866 conversion and make sure that there are no other characters other than ascii and cyrillic. My |anglisc taglines would have to be stripped out.

I would prefer to use UTF-8 as well, ecpecially no technical
reason to not use it.

Agreed. They just make sense even for people using purely ascii text.

French accents in 866. Doesn't work really.

Same with my |anglisc taglines. If you try and convert my messages as is to CP866 you'll soon see that they cannot be converted even if the actual message is pure ascii. Even if I add Russian to the message the tagline will still cause grief for iconv and tools like it. Same can be said for the M|+|+se that
bit my sister.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Ne m|ag werig mod wyrde wi|#stondan, ne se hreo hyge helpe gefremman.
A weary mind cannot withstand fate, nor a sad heart offer help.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Maurice!

Same with my |anglisc taglines. If you try and convert my messages as
is to CP866 you'll soon see that they cannot be converted even if the actual message is pure ascii. Even if I add Russian to the message
the tagline will still cause grief for iconv and tools like it. Same
can be said for the M|+|+se that bit my sister.

Do you happen to know any active French-speaking echoes?

Vasily


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
* Origin: ----> Default GoldED Origin <---- (1:229/616)

-={ 2017-02-25 00:02:39.628209116-05:00 }=-

Hey Vasily!

Do you happen to know any active French-speaking echoes?

No. There used to be quite a few active Qu|-b|-cois in Fidonet back in the so-called 'good old days' but I am not aware that they had any regional echoes that were primarily French. I am guessing that there probably was at one time.

Looking at a recent nodelist I only see one node listed in Quebec and it looks to be an Irish decendant given the listed name 'mccarragher.org'. However I do
see a different node in the same net listed out of Moncton and there are quite a few Franch speaking people in that part of the world. Anyhow Net 249 is in the same region as you so perhaps you could ask around as they might know better than I what the real scoop is as far as French speaking echoes are concerned.

It would be interesting to find out what happened but I suspect it is the same story as what has happened to nodes all over the world. I vote we change that if we can.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Gyf |+u well sprece, wyrc |after swa.
If you speak well, act accordingly.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello, Kees van Eeten.
On 23/02/2017 3.06 PM you wrote:

Aabenraa or +benro

http://ubelo.dk/ :)

you writed perfect obenro here to android, aebeloe.dk but the last one is not my domain

--
Best regards!
Posted using Hotdoged on Android 6 (Denver)
--- Hotdoged/2.12/Android
* Origin: i feel like home here (2:230/38.1)

Hello Benny!

25 Feb 17 23:41, you wrote to me:

Aabenraa or +benro

http://ubelo.dk/ :)

you writed perfect obenro here to android, aebeloe.dk but the last one is not my domain

They all look good here as well, apparently these characters are all part of
iso-8859-1 or maybe even Latin-1 ;))

Well as long as I can write Fano and Romo properly, I am happy.

Kees

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)

Hey Grigori!

Apologies about the spelling of -o-C-+-|-+-C-+-| -a-#-U-+-a-e-+-+ in the "to" field but I am still working on proper inputting of UTF-8 characters. Much easier to do in the body of the message as you can plainly see. One thing for sure is that I am light years ahead of others who are misguided by substandards. :::evil grin:::

At least we can write Fan|+ and R|+m|+ properly without screwing up your name -o-C-+-|-+-C-+-| -a-#-U-+-a-e-+-+. I don't think there are many in this fine and upstanding echo who can make that claim, with or without a bogus CHRS kludge.

Thank you for lending an ear while I check out whether or not I have broken anything.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hey Maurice!

Fan|+ and R|+m|+ properly without screwing up your name
-o-C-+-|-+-C-+-| -a-#-U-+-a-e-+-+.

Note that the above quote retains the proper utf-8 codes although I took the liberty of breaking up the sentence so that inferior software upstream doesn't break it up based on the definition of char (byte) as opposed to wchar which can and does vary byte-wise. For the text in the quote there is 91 bytes but only 72 characters which will indeed cause problems. The way it is broken up in the above quoted lines should be okay.

Thank you for lending an ear while I check out whether or not I
have broken anything.

Same with this reply except there is no plan to ever take care of quoting in the future given the grief it causes. It isn't worth it ... other than this particular time. However it won't hurt my feelings if I never quote ever again. How about you?

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hey Maurice!

MSGID: 1:153/7001 58baee3d
REPLY: 1:153/7001 58bad196

The above jives with what is shown in the stored msgbase.

However it won't hurt my feelings if I never quote ever again.
How about you?

We're good to go as far as utf-8 characters are concerned but it is advisable NOT to quote back any 8 bit characters given the inherent limitations of those inferior encodings. Wordwrapping aside, the standard DOS-think editors have no
issues quoting back both 8 bit and multibyte characters without tainting them but the substandard FTN ones (eg golded and msged) have obviously been tainted by shoddy programming based on obviously corrupted FTN substandards (eg fts-5003.001).

Good thing we're on top of such things eh? Too bad we appear to be the only ones.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Maurice!

04 Mar 2017 14:39, Maurice Kinal wrote to Grigori Rasputin:

@MSGID: 1:153/7001 58bad196
Hey Grigori!

you break $chrs

this is valid for charset 437, nothing more

okay work in progress


Regards Benny

... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/4.10.1-gentoo (i686))
* Origin: openvpn on its way here (2:230/0)

Hey Benny!

I broke nothing. All characters were fine and honourable as sent, including the ASCII ones as well as the multibyte (all 16 bit) UTF-8 ones that happen correspond to Latin and Cyrillic based languages in the case of the original message referred to in your reply as "REPLY: 1:153/7001 58bad196".

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Maurice!

04 Mar 2017 22:02, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

I broke nothing.

and you continue now with breaking reply thread

All characters were fine and honourable as sent,

fine with that part

including the ASCII ones as well as the multibyte (all 16 bit) UTF-8

fine with that part if all chars is sent as 7bit that is what utf-8 do right ?

ones that happen correspond to Latin and Cyrillic based languages in
the case of the original message referred to in your reply as "REPLY: 1:153/7001 58bad196".

my cat want to get out now, lol :)

but you miss my whole point on fidonet chrs settings, if its all 7bit, its not really needed if there is no encoding at all, but if you encode you have to tell with chrs setting is needed to decode it

if you can prove me inccorrect there i can get my cats out of my dors now :)

Life is good,
Maurice

i think donald trump says the same at the russian parties :=)

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
-+- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
+ Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Regards Benny

... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/4.10.1-gentoo (i686))
* Origin: openvpn on its way here (2:230/0)

Hey Benny!

Donald Trump? Sounds like some sort of Danish pastry. Is it used for dunking in vodka at Russian parties? I fail to see the reference otherwise.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Aa?oNrbropE, Vasily!

25 Feb 17 05:26, Vasily Losev !a>?ba2(a) Maurice Kinal:

Do you happen to know any active French-speaking echoes?

AFAIK there never was a significant need for Fido in France, they had their nation-wide Minitel.

a !a?2pt*?4? ><aN2a!?N4?, Alexander.

--- i?!?N -- aaoaooa -- *ai2<!a ---
* Origin: https://www.linuxcounter.net/user/495771 (2:5030/722.68)

Hey Alexander!

there never was a significant need for Fido in France

There are other French speaking peoples in the world besides those in France. For example I was thinking along the line of the fr_CA.utf8 in the original post which is the French Canadian locale. Also development along the line of utf8 locales helps to ensure greater univerality than something like CP866 or any other 8 bit encoding.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Alexander Suvorov wrote to Vasily Losev <=-

Do you happen to know any active French-speaking echoes?

AFAIK there never was a significant need for Fido in France, they had their nation-wide Minitel.

Depends on the cost. Australia had a similar system in the 80s, but it was quite expensive to access. Can't remember if it had timed charges, per page charges or both.


... My computer has a nut loose on the keyboard.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
* Origin: Freeway BBS - freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)

Hey Alexander!

One thing worth mentioning about deployment of utf8 locales is the possibility of this;

--------- <Esc>:read !TZ=EST5EDT LANG=fr_CA.utf8 date
lun mar 6 18:27:32 EST 2017

--------- <Esc>:read !TZ=Europe/Moscow LANG=ru_RU.utf8 date
-A-e -+-#-C 7 02:28:36 MSK 2017

which is not possible simply by enabling a CHRS kludge including "CHRS: UTF-8 4". Thus a French-Canadian speaking echo is capable of supporting any language
which greatly eases the development of Fidonet capable software when true universallity is taken into account as sopposed to DOS-think 8 bit crapware such as msged and golded.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Alexander!

AFAIK there never was a significant need for Fido in France, they had their nation-wide Minitel.

How about Switzerland?

Vasily


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
* Origin: ----> Default GoldED Origin <---- (1:229/616)

Hello Maurice!

06 Mar 17 23:24, you wrote to Alexander Suvorov:

Hey Alexander!

One thing worth mentioning about deployment of utf8 locales is the possibility of this;

Are you able to read his greeting properly?


Vasily


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
* Origin: ----> Default GoldED Origin <---- (1:229/616)

Hey Vasily!

Are you able to read his greeting properly?

Yes but only when I convert them to utf-8 characters. I won't quote them back since they have been altered from cp866 to utf-8. For Russian locales I can only do;

--------- <Esc>:read !locale -a | grep ^ru
ru_RU
ru_RU.iso88595
ru_RU.koi8r
ru_RU.utf8
russian
ru_UA
ru_UA.koi8u
ru_UA.utf8
---------

Note that cp866 is *NOT* supported. However it would be possible to pipe LANG=ru_UA.utf8 text to 'iconv -f utf8 -t cp866 -o russian_cp866.msg' or something like that if someone insisted they actually needed cp866. However French Canadian, as well as other French based languages, cannot be converted to cp866 so I fail to see the point.

I honestly don't see the point of supporting 8 bit character sets in text messaging when utf8 is so readily available.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-atom-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)