• Testing Synchronet

    From Allen Prunty@1:2320/100 to All on Wed Feb 15 12:21:04 2017
    Just curious can someone please let me know how this is getting out?

    Allen
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: LiveWire BBS - Synchronet - LiveWireBBS.com (1:2320/100)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Allen Prunty on Wed Feb 15 18:23:22 2017
    Hi,

    On 2017-02-15 12:21:05, Allen Prunty wrote to All:
    about: "Testing Synchronet":

    @MSGID: 1196.fn_fidotest@1:2320/100 1d09c8ad

    Well that's not correct according to FTS-0009:

    ^AMSGID: origaddr serialno

    The originating address should be specified in a form that
    constitutes a valid return address for the originating network.

    @PID: Synchronet 3.17a-Win32 Feb 7 2017 MSC 1800
    @TZUTC: -0500
    @TID: SBBSecho 3.00-Win32 r3.28 Feb 7 2017 MSC 1800
    Just curious can someone please let me know how this is getting out?

    Allen
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: LiveWire BBS - Synchronet - LiveWireBBS.com (1:2320/100) SEEN-BY: 103/705 120/544 123/500 154/10 203/0 227/51 240/1661 249/303 SEEN-BY: 261/38 280/464 5003 5555 310/31 423/120 712/848 770/1 2320/0 SEEN-BY: 2320/1 100 200 5075/35
    @PATH: 2320/100 280/464

    Bye, Wilfred.


    --- FMail-W32 1.73.17.77-B20170207
    * Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)
  • From Bill McGarrity@1:266/404 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Feb 15 13:03:02 2017
    Re: Re: Testing Synchronet
    By: Wilfred van Velzen to Allen Prunty on Wed Feb 15 2017 18:23:22

    Hiya Wilfred....

    sbbsecho has been using that format for years and it doesn't seem to effect reply messages being linked.... such as below. Your sorfware knew...


    --

    Bill

    Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
    Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:81
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    ... Look TWICE.... Save a life.... Motorcycles are EVERYWHERE!!
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ (1:266/404)
  • From Bill McGarrity@1:266/404 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Feb 15 13:05:00 2017
    Hiya Wilfred...

    Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Allen Prunty <=-

    Hi,

    On 2017-02-15 12:21:05, Allen Prunty wrote to All:
    about: "Testing Synchronet":

    @MSGID: 1196.fn_fidotest@1:2320/100 1d09c8ad

    Well that's not correct according to FTS-0009:

    ^AMSGID: origaddr serialno

    The originating address should be specified in a form that
    constitutes a valid return address for the originating network.


    sbbsecho has been doing this for years and so far no other software has burped due to the format used. It has both a valid FTN address along with a msg id. Even you're didn't have an issue with it...

    Subject Re: Testing Synchronet
    X-FTN-AREA FIDOTEST
    X-FTN-TID FMail-W32 1.73.17.77-B20170207
    X-FTN-Kludge RFC-X-No-Archive: Yes
    X-FTN-Kludge CHRS: CP437 2
    X-FTN-PID GED+W32 1.1.5-b20160201
    X-FTN-MSGID 2:280/464 58a48f19
    X-FTN-REPLY 1196.fn_fidotest@1:2320/100 1d09c8ad
    X-FTN-SEEN-BY 103/705 154/10 201/0 203/0 221/1 227/51 230/0 240/1661 249/303 X-FTN-SEEN-BY 266/404 280/464 5003 5555 310/31 320/219 423/81 120 640/384
    12
    /848
    X-FTN-SEEN-BY 770/1 2320/100 5075/35
    X-FTN-PATH 280/464 203/0


    There's a reply kludge in there...





    @PID: Synchronet 3.17a-Win32 Feb 7 2017 MSC 1800
    @TZUTC: -0500
    @TID: SBBSecho 3.00-Win32 r3.28 Feb 7 2017 MSC 1800
    Just curious can someone please let me know how this is getting out?

    Allen
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: LiveWire BBS - Synchronet - LiveWireBBS.com (1:2320/100) SEEN-BY: 103/705 120/544 123/500 154/10 203/0 227/51 240/1661 249/303 SEEN-BY: 261/38 280/464 5003 5555 310/31 423/120 712/848 770/1 2320/0 SEEN-BY: 2320/1 100 200 5075/35
    @PATH: 2320/100 280/464

    Bye, Wilfred.


    --- FMail-W32 1.73.17.77-B20170207
    * Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)

    --

    Bill

    Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
    Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:81
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    ... Look Twice... Save a Life!!! Motorcycles are Everywhere!!!
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ (1:266/404)
  • From John Hiemenz@1:154/40 to Allen Prunty on Wed Feb 15 12:33:08 2017
    Re: Testing Synchronet
    By: Allen Prunty to All on Wed Feb 15 2017 12:21 pm

    Just curious can someone please let me know how this is getting out?


    If you are using Synchronet, then it is typically getting out with sbbsecho
    and some form of mailer. (ha!)

    seen here.
    --
    John

    ... I'm not broke, I'm just badly bent.
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Linux
    * Origin: The Universal JoiNT - bbs.ujoint.org (1:154/40)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Bill McGarrity on Wed Feb 15 19:18:20 2017
    Hello Bill,

    On Wednesday February 15 2017 13:05, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:


    @MSGID: 1196.fn_fidotest@1:2320/100 1d09c8ad

    Well that's not correct according to FTS-0009:

    ^AMSGID: origaddr serialno

    The originating address should be specified in a form that
    constitutes a valid return address for the originating network.

    sbbsecho has been doing this for years

    It is in violation of FTS-0009. That it has been doing it for years, does not alter that fact.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20130111
    * Origin: Bl?f T?n?n (2:280/5555)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Allen Prunty on Wed Feb 15 13:29:00 2017

    On 2017 Feb 15 12:21:04, you wrote to All:

    @TZUTC: -0500
    @MSGID: 1196.fn_fidotest@1:2320/100 1d09c8ad
    @PID: Synchronet 3.17a-Win32 Feb 7 2017 MSC 1800
    @TID: SBBSecho 3.00-Win32 r3.28 Feb 7 2017 MSC 1800
    Just curious can someone please let me know how this is getting out?

    Allen
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: LiveWire BBS - Synchronet - LiveWireBBS.com (1:2320/100) SEEN-BY: 11/0 114/485 120/229 301 302 323 340 419 481 502 544 545 546 601 SEEN-BY: 120/640 123/500 140/1 203/0 220/10 30 40 226/70 301 350 227/51 60 SEEN-BY: 227/70 101 400 261/38 280/464 331/51 2215/15 300 1701 2320/0 1
    100
    SEEN-BY: 2320/200 304 3634/12 15 22 24 27 42 50 666
    @PATH: 2320/100 120/544 3634/15 12



    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... A woman is only a woman, but a good cigar is a smoke.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Feb 15 13:29:00 2017

    On 2017 Feb 15 18:23:22, you wrote to Allen Prunty:

    @MSGID: 1196.fn_fidotest@1:2320/100 1d09c8ad

    Well that's not correct according to FTS-0009:

    you really should get off that boat... it won't be changed and the software in question does not purport to support FTS-0009...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Spankings. They're not just for Birthdays anymore.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Bill McGarrity@1:266/404 to Michiel van der Vlist on Wed Feb 15 14:19:00 2017
    Hiya Miciel...

    Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-


    On Wednesday February 15 2017 13:05, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:


    @MSGID: 1196.fn_fidotest@1:2320/100 1d09c8ad

    Well that's not correct according to FTS-0009:

    ^AMSGID: origaddr serialno

    The originating address should be specified in a form that
    constitutes a valid return address for the originating network.

    sbbsecho has been doing this for years

    It is in violation of FTS-0009. That it has been doing it for years,
    does not alter that fact.


    Have there been issues with it this way? I see both the originating node address and a message ID. I also open up your reply and see GoldEd and FMail have no issue with it understanding the kludge either....

    X-FTN-AREA FIDOTEST
    X-FTN-TID FMail-W32 1.73.16.75-B20170202
    X-FTN-Kludge RFC-X-No-Archive: Yes
    X-FTN-Kludge CHRS: UTF-8 4
    X-FTN-MSGID 2:280/5555 58a49bea
    X-FTN-REPLY 4565.2fidotest@1:266/404 1d09e094
    X-FTN-SEEN-BY 154/10 201/0 203/0 221/1 230/0 249/303 266/404 280/464 5555
    20
    /219
    X-FTN-SEEN-BY 423/81 640/384 2320/100
    X-FTN-PATH 280/5555 203/0


    There are some battles I have no issue with you fighting but this one is rather thin as there are zero problems with existing software chocking on it.

    Please, I have enough headaches dealing with this mess we have going on over here. One problem at a time.


    --

    Bill

    Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
    Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:81
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    ... Look Twice... Save a Life!!! Motorcycles are Everywhere!!!
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ (1:266/404)
  • From Allen Prunty@1:2320/100 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Feb 15 16:08:20 2017

    Hello Wilfred!

    15 Feb 17 18:23, you wrote to me:

    @MSGID: 1196.fn_fidotest@1:2320/100 1d09c8ad

    Well that's not correct according to FTS-0009:

    ^AMSGID: origaddr serialno

    The originating address should be specified in a form that
    constitutes a valid return address for the originating network.

    I have passed this over to Rob Swindell on the Synchronet Support echo. Unlike
    most other BBS Packages Synchro is open source and has a very active group of developers. I somehow think they will be on it soon.

    Allen

    Allen


    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20161221
    # Origin: LiveWire -=*Sysop's Desk *=- LiveWireBBS.Com:2300 (1:2320/100)
    * Origin: LiveWire BBS - Synchronet - LiveWireBBS.com (1:2320/100)
  • From Allen Prunty@1:2320/100 to Bill McGarrity on Wed Feb 15 16:10:38 2017


    Hello Bill!

    Of course there is a reply Kludge... the message was written with Golded :-)

    Allen


    15 Feb 17 13:05, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

    Hiya Wilfred...

    Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Allen Prunty <=-

    Hi,

    On 2017-02-15 12:21:05, Allen Prunty wrote to All:
    about: "Testing Synchronet":

    @MSGID: 1196.fn_fidotest@1:2320/100 1d09c8ad

    Well that's not correct according to FTS-0009:

    ^AMSGID: origaddr serialno

    The originating address should be specified in a form that
    constitutes a valid return address for the originating
    network.


    sbbsecho has been doing this for years and so far no other software
    has burped due to the format used. It has both a valid FTN address
    along with a msg id. Even you're didn't have an issue with it...

    Subject Re: Testing Synchronet
    X-FTN-AREA FIDOTEST
    X-FTN-TID FMail-W32 1.73.17.77-B20170207
    X-FTN-Kludge RFC-X-No-Archive: Yes
    X-FTN-Kludge CHRS: CP437 2
    X-FTN-PID GED+W32 1.1.5-b20160201
    X-FTN-MSGID 2:280/464 58a48f19
    X-FTN-REPLY 1196.fn_fidotest@1:2320/100 1d09c8ad
    X-FTN-SEEN-BY 103/705 154/10 201/0 203/0 221/1 227/51 230/0
    240/1661 249/303 X-FTN-SEEN-BY 266/404 280/464 5003 5555 310/31
    320/219 423/81 120 640/384 12 /848 X-FTN-SEEN-BY 770/1 2320/100
    5075/35 X-FTN-PATH 280/464 203/0


    There's a reply kludge in there...





    @PID: Synchronet 3.17a-Win32 Feb 7 2017 MSC 1800
    @TZUTC: -0500
    @TID: SBBSecho 3.00-Win32 r3.28 Feb 7 2017 MSC 1800
    Just curious can someone please let me know how this is getting
    out?

    Allen
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: LiveWire BBS - Synchronet - LiveWireBBS.com
    (1:2320/100)
    SEEN-BY: 103/705 120/544 123/500 154/10 203/0 227/51 240/1661
    249/303
    SEEN-BY: 261/38 280/464 5003 5555 310/31 423/120 712/848 770/1
    2320/0
    SEEN-BY: 2320/1 100 200 5075/35
    @PATH: 2320/100 280/464

    Bye, Wilfred.


    --- FMail-W32 1.73.17.77-B20170207
    * Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)

    --

    Bill

    Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
    Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:81
    FTP: ftp.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:2121
    IRC: irc.tequilamockingbirdonline.net Ports: 6661-6670 SSL: +6697
    Radio: radio.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:8010/live


    ... Look Twice... Save a Life!!! Motorcycles are Everywhere!!!
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.50

    Allen


    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20161221
    # Origin: LiveWire -=*Sysop's Desk *=- LiveWireBBS.Com:2300 (1:2320/100)
    * Origin: LiveWire BBS - Synchronet - LiveWireBBS.com (1:2320/100)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Allen Prunty on Wed Feb 15 22:43:22 2017
    Hi,

    On 2017-02-15 16:08:21, Allen Prunty wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:
    about: "Testing Synchronet":

    @MSGID: 1196.fn_fidotest@1:2320/100 1d09c8ad

    Well that's not correct according to FTS-0009:

    ^AMSGID: origaddr serialno

    The originating address should be specified in a form that
    constitutes a valid return address for the originating network.

    I have passed this over to Rob Swindell on the Synchronet Support echo. Unlike most other BBS Packages Synchro is open source and has a very
    active
    group of developers. I somehow think they will be on it soon.

    Rob has been aware of this for a long time. And I don't think he will suddenly change this...

    What I think happend, is they miss used the MSGID to store some information that is needed in synchronet/sbbsecho. What they should have done is create a compatible MSGID, and store that extra information somewhere else, perhaps a kludge specific to synchronet...

    Bye, Wilfred.


    --- FMail-W32 1.73.17.77-B20170207
    * Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Bill McGarrity on Wed Feb 15 22:36:36 2017
    Hi,

    On 2017-02-15 13:05:00, Bill McGarrity wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:
    about: "Re: Testing Synchronet":

    @MSGID: 1196.fn_fidotest@1:2320/100 1d09c8ad

    Well that's not correct according to FTS-0009:

    ^AMSGID: origaddr serialno

    The originating address should be specified in a form that
    constitutes a valid return address for the originating network.

    sbbsecho has been doing this for years and so far no other software
    has burped due to the format used.

    So other software is flexible enough to not burp on none compliant MSGID's. That doesn't make it correct though...


    Bye, Wilfred.


    --- FMail-W32 1.73.17.77-B20170207
    * Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)
  • From Bill McGarrity@1:266/404 to Allen Prunty on Wed Feb 15 17:40:00 2017
    Allen Prunty wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-



    Hello Bill!

    Of course there is a reply Kludge... the message was written with
    Golded :-)


    X-FTN-MSGID 2:280/464 58a48f19
    X-FTN-REPLY 1196.fn_fidotest@1:2320/100 1d09c8ad
    X-FTN-SEEN-BY 103/705 154/10 201/0 203/0 221/1 227/51 230/0


    My point was GoldEd knew that indeed it was the MSGID and replied to said message properly.

    EoD...



    --

    Bill

    Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
    Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:81
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    ... Look Twice... Save a Life!!! Motorcycles are Everywhere!!!
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ (1:266/404)
  • From Bill McGarrity@1:266/404 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Feb 15 17:48:00 2017
    Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-

    @MSGID: <58A4CBF0.4574.2fidotest@tequilamockingbirdonline.net>
    @TZ: 003c
    Hi,

    On 2017-02-15 13:05:00, Bill McGarrity wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:
    about: "Re: Testing Synchronet":

    @MSGID: 1196.fn_fidotest@1:2320/100 1d09c8ad

    Well that's not correct according to FTS-0009:

    ^AMSGID: origaddr serialno

    The originating address should be specified in a form that
    constitutes a valid return address for the originating network.

    sbbsecho has been doing this for years and so far no other software
    has burped due to the format used.

    So other software is flexible enough to not burp on none compliant MSGID's. That doesn't make it correct though...

    I'm sure if other software burped, then Rob would have taken care of the problem. Plus as mark stated, I don't think Rob has ever stated he followed the FTS-0009 standard. There are alot more problems with other software the FTSC needs to concern themselves with other than a few extra characters in a MSGID that doesn't seem to be affecting the flow of echomail in the slightest. The software I'm using right now has superior dupe detection that, as per your request a year of so ago, was addressed and it probably working better than most tossers out there now. I'm sure Bj%rn and Janis can attest to that fact. Please don't make a mountain out of a molehill. I would be must more sympathetic to your cause if indeed is was creating an issue.



    --

    Bill

    Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
    Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:81
    FTP: ftp.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:2121
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    Radio: radio.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:8010/live


    ... Look Twice... Save a Life!!! Motorcycles are Everywhere!!!
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ (1:266/404)
  • From Bill McGarrity@1:266/404 to Allen Prunty on Wed Feb 15 17:53:00 2017
    Allen Prunty wrote to Wilfred van Velzen <=-

    Hello Wilfred!

    15 Feb 17 18:23, you wrote to me:

    @MSGID: 1196.fn_fidotest@1:2320/100 1d09c8ad

    Well that's not correct according to FTS-0009:

    ^AMSGID: origaddr serialno

    The originating address should be specified in a form that
    constitutes a valid return address for the originating network.

    I have passed this over to Rob Swindell on the Synchronet Support echo.
    Unlike most other BBS Packages Synchro is open source and has a very active group of developers. I somehow think they will be on it soon.

    This has already been discussed with Rob and from my understanding, being Synch has a proprietary message base, it is needed. It's not causing any problems so don't worry about it.


    --

    Bill

    Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
    Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:81
    FTP: ftp.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:2121
    IRC: irc.tequilamockingbirdonline.net Ports: 6661-6670 SSL: +6697
    Radio: radio.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:8010/live


    ... Look Twice... Save a Life!!! Motorcycles are Everywhere!!!
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ (1:266/404)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Michiel van der Vlist on Wed Feb 15 20:14:04 2017
    On 2017 Feb 15 19:18:20, you wrote to Bill McGarrity:

    sbbsecho has been doing this for years

    It is in violation of FTS-0009. That it has been doing it for years,
    does not alter that fact.

    where does that software package state that it supports and implements FTS-0009? if it doesn't state that it does, then it cannot be in violation... not only that, if it is in violation, where is the enforcement? there is none... get over it...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... A dime each time you piss me off gives me a sock full to beat you with.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Feb 15 20:18:20 2017
    On 2017 Feb 15 22:36:36, you wrote to Bill McGarrity:

    sbbsecho has been doing this for years and so far no other software
    has burped due to the format used.

    So other software is flexible enough to not burp on none compliant MSGID's. That doesn't make it correct though...

    it doesn't make it wrong, either... especially when it doesn't state that it supports and implements FTS-0009... if it stated that it did, then there would be grounds for complaint... since it doesn't, it is nothing more than hot air being blown about needlessly...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I plead "Premature Senility"
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Bill McGarrity on Wed Feb 15 19:58:06 2017
    Hello Bill,

    On Wed Feb 15 2017 13:03:02, Bill McGarrity wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

    sbbsecho has been using that format for years and it doesn't seem to effect reply messages being linked.... such as below. Your sorfware knew...

    Yet another thing to whine about and hold back developers from doing anything new, is all..

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20161221
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Michiel van der Vlist on Wed Feb 15 19:59:04 2017
    Hello Michiel,

    On Wed Feb 15 2017 19:18:20, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Bill McGarrity:

    sbbsecho has been doing this for years

    It is in violation of FTS-0009. That it has been doing it for years,
    does not alter that fact.

    Are you on some kind of power trip?

    There is no "violation" of anything. FTSC documents document current practice. SBBSECHO changed current practice, which does not "violate" anything. If other software decided to go that route, it could eventually become current practice.

    IS THIS NOT HOW IT WORKS????

    There is no such thing as violating anything regarding the FTSC. This is how new proposals and new standards are born. Get off your high horse.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20161221
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Feb 15 20:02:50 2017
    Hello Wilfred,

    On Wed Feb 15 2017 22:43:22, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Allen Prunty:

    Rob has been aware of this for a long time. And I don't think he will suddenly change this...

    You're probably right there.

    What I think happend, is they miss used the MSGID to store some information that is needed in synchronet/sbbsecho. What they should
    have done is create a compatible MSGID, and store that extra
    information somewhere else, perhaps a kludge specific to synchronet...

    I highly doubt he misused anything. He came up with a better way, and went with
    it. The MSGID is still compatible, and doesn't "violate" anything.

    Why is it some feel like they need to restrict developers from advancing anything? Standards and proposals were created in the past using this exact same idealogy, yet now both you and Michiel seem to think that developers can not do that any more?

    Something is seriously wrong with that.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20161221
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to mark lewis on Wed Feb 15 20:06:54 2017
    Hello mark,

    On Wed Feb 15 2017 20:14:04, mark lewis wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

    It is in violation of FTS-0009. That it has been doing it for
    years, does not alter that fact.

    where does that software package state that it supports and implements FTS-0009? if it doesn't state that it does, then it cannot be in violation... not only that, if it is in violation, where is the enforcement? there is none... get over it...

    There is no enforcement, nor should there be. That is not the job of the FTSC.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20161221
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Joe Delahaye@1:249/303 to Allen Prunty on Wed Feb 15 21:20:56 2017
    Re: Testing Synchronet
    By: Allen Prunty to All on Wed Feb 15 2017 12:21:05

    Just curious can someone please let me know how this is getting out?

    Its getting out, but I have no idea how it is getting out <G>
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)
  • From Joe Delahaye@1:249/303 to Michiel van der Vlist on Wed Feb 15 21:23:50 2017
    Re: Testing Synchronet
    By: Michiel van der Vlist to Bill McGarrity on Wed Feb 15 2017 19:18:21

    On Wednesday February 15 2017 13:05, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:


    @MSGID: 1196.fn_fidotest@1:2320/100 1d09c8ad

    Well that's not correct according to FTS-0009:

    ^AMSGID: origaddr serialno

    The originating address should be specified in a form that
    constitutes a valid return address for the originating network.

    sbbsecho has been doing this for years

    It is in violation of FTS-0009. That it has been doing it for years, does not alter that fact.


    What violation? That only says what common practice was at the time it was written. BTW, which came first? FTS-0009 in its present format, or Synchronet and its message base?
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)
  • From Joe Delahaye@1:249/303 to Allen Prunty on Wed Feb 15 21:25:22 2017
    Re: Testing Synchronet
    By: Allen Prunty to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Feb 15 2017 16:08:21

    I have passed this over to Rob Swindell on the Synchronet Support echo. Unlike
    most other BBS Packages Synchro is open source and has a very active group of developers. I somehow think they will be on it soon.

    This has been discussed before. There will likely be no action taken on that. --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nicholas Boel on Wed Feb 15 23:01:00 2017

    On 2017 Feb 15 19:59:04, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

    sbbsecho has been doing this for years

    It is in violation of FTS-0009. That it has been doing it for years,
    does not alter that fact.

    Are you on some kind of power trip?

    There is no "violation" of anything. FTSC documents document current practice. SBBSECHO changed current practice, which does not "violate" anything. If other software decided to go that route, it could
    eventually become current practice.

    IS THIS NOT HOW IT WORKS????

    it is exactly how it works and this is a perfect example of that mantra coming back to bite the FTSC and those chanting that mantra square in the ass... i've said it before and i'll keep saying it, there's plenty of rope already given out and more to be taken by those who insist on hanging theirselves... they're doing a good job at collecting the rope, too! ;)

    There is no such thing as violating anything regarding the FTSC. This
    is how new proposals and new standards are born. Get off your high
    horse.

    there is no enforcement any more so there's nothing that can really be done any
    way...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... 52. Don't stare.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nicholas Boel on Wed Feb 15 23:04:00 2017

    On 2017 Feb 15 20:06:54, you wrote to me:

    It is in violation of FTS-0009. That it has been doing it for years,
    does not alter that fact.

    where does that software package state that it supports and
    implements FTS-0009? if it doesn't state that it does, then it cannot
    be in violation... not only that, if it is in violation, where is the
    enforcement? there is none... get over it...

    There is no enforcement, nor should there be. That is not the job of
    the FTSC.

    i didn't say the FTSC handled enforcement... that came from the *C level but it
    cannot be initiated anymore since the IC position has been abandoned...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Chaos reigns within. Reflect, repent, and reboot. Order shall return.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Allen Prunty@1:2320/100 to Joe Delahaye on Thu Feb 16 00:05:18 2017
    Re: Testing Synchronet
    By: Joe Delahaye to Allen Prunty on Wed Feb 15 2017 09:20 pm

    Its getting out, but I have no idea how it is getting out <G>

    Hey... All I can say is never have I ever had mail move so efficiently throgh my system. It's almost like the second it hits here it moves out. I've got the semaphore files firing as soon as binkd closes the files.

    When I post a message BOOM it goes out. NEVER has the LiveWire ever been this responsive.

    Allen
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: LiveWire BBS - Synchronet - LiveWireBBS.com (1:2320/100)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Allen Prunty on Thu Feb 16 08:08:26 2017

    Just curious can someone please let me know how this is getting out?

    Someone can.

    X-JAM-PATH2D: 2320/100 280/464 240/1661 221/6 0

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:51.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/
    * Origin: *** nntp://rbb.bbs.fi *** Lake Ylo *** Finland *** (2:221/360)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Joe Delahaye on Thu Feb 16 08:13:24 2017
    Joe Delahaye : Michiel van der Vlist:

    BTW, which came first? FTS-0009 in its present format, or
    Synchronet and its message base?

    What has the message base type to do with messages sent to fidonet? :o

    'Tommi

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:51.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/
    * Origin: *** nntp://rbb.bbs.fi *** Lake Ylo *** Finland *** (2:221/360)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Bill McGarrity on Thu Feb 16 08:17:16 2017
    Bill McGarrity : Wilfred van Velzen :

    I'm sure if other software burped,

    I know one software which tries to read the originating address from the MSGID line. It fails in case of syncronet.

    It was discussed here not so very long time ago.

    'Tommi

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:51.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/
    * Origin: *** nntp://rbb.bbs.fi *** Lake Ylo *** Finland *** (2:221/360)
  • From Bill McGarrity@1:266/404 to Nicholas Boel on Thu Feb 16 01:49:00 2017
    Nicholas Boel wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-


    On Wed Feb 15 2017 13:03:02, Bill McGarrity wrote to Wilfred van
    Velzen:

    sbbsecho has been using that format for years and it doesn't seem to effect reply messages being linked.... such as below. Your sorfware knew...

    Yet another thing to whine about and hold back developers from doing anything new, is all..

    Just like anything else. It hasn't caused a problem with any software. One must learn to choose their battles wisely over important stuff.


    --

    Bill

    Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
    Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:81
    FTP: ftp.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:2121
    IRC: irc.tequilamockingbirdonline.net Ports: 6661-6670 SSL: +6697
    Radio: radio.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:8010/live


    ... Look Twice... Save a Life!!! Motorcycles are Everywhere!!!
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ (1:266/404)
  • From Bill McGarrity@1:266/404 to Tommi Koivula on Thu Feb 16 02:03:14 2017
    Re: Testing Synchronet
    By: Tommi Koivula to Bill McGarrity on Thu Feb 16 2017 08:17:16

    Hiya Tommi...

    I know one software which tries to read the originating address from
    the MSGID line. It fails in case of syncronet.

    Care to share?


    --

    Bill

    Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
    Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:81
    FTP: ftp.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:2121
    IRC: irc.tequilamockingbirdonline.net Ports: 6661-6670 SSL: 6697
    Radio: radio.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:8010/live

    ... Look TWICE.... Save a life.... Motorcycles are EVERYWHERE!!
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ (1:266/404)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Bill McGarrity on Thu Feb 16 10:24:50 2017
    Bill McGarrity : Tommi Koivula wrote:

    Re: Testing Synchronet
    By: Tommi Koivula to Bill McGarrity on Thu Feb 16 2017 08:17:16

    Hiya Tommi...

    I know one software which tries to read the originating
    address from the MSGID line. It fails in case of syncronet.

    Care to share?

    Soupgate.

    Please read the thread started "Wed, 3 Feb 2016 02:33:30 -0700" by Michael Buchholz.

    'Tommi

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:51.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/
    * Origin: *** nntp://rbb.bbs.fi *** Lake Ylo *** Finland *** (2:221/360)
  • From C.g. Learn@1:275/95 to Allen Prunty on Thu Feb 16 06:56:20 2017
    Just curious can someone please let me know how this is getting out?

    Got Here at Valhalla Land.

    << C.G. >>
    --- GAPNetW
    * Origin: Valhalla II - bbs.valhallabbs.com - Richmond, VA.! (1:275/95)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Bill McGarrity on Thu Feb 16 13:46:24 2017
    Hello Bill,

    On Wednesday February 15 2017 17:48, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

    So other software is flexible enough to not burp on none
    compliant MSGID's. That doesn't make it correct though...

    I'm sure if other software burped, then Rob would have taken care of
    the problem.

    How can you be so sure there are no problems? That you have no problems, does not mean no ones else has problems.

    Plus as mark stated, I don't think Rob has ever stated he followed the FTS-0009 standard.

    While it is true that FTS-0009 is not a required standard, if one follows part of it, one has to follow all of it. It uses the MSGID identifier, it uses the eight digit hexadecimal serial number and it uses the REPLY kludge. So it follows FTS-0009 in part. Explicitly stated or not. By following part of FTS-0009 but not all of it, one is in violation of it.

    If one thinks one has a better way of identifying message in Fidonet than FTS-0009, by all means give it a try. But then use something else for the keyword! Don't use MSGID for something that does not follow FTS-0009. That is annoying - if not excessively annoying - as it could cause problems for others.

    There are alot more problems with other software the FTSC needs to
    concern themselves with other than a few extra characters in a MSGID

    Writing documentation is something that is not done in a spare hour. One has to
    do the research, write it down in an unambigious and clear way, and last but not least go through the cat hearding exercise of reaching concensus on it. It takes a lot of time and effort.

    And what for? Not for the salary end certainly not for the virgins in Valhalla!

    Do you really think it is all right to ignore and violate FTSC standards, just by refraining from stating to follow them?

    Do you really think that is the right attitude to encourage all those volunteers to spend time and energy on it?


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20130111
    * Origin: Blof T?non (2:280/5555)
  • From Joe Delahaye@1:249/303 to Tommi Koivula on Thu Feb 16 11:09:02 2017
    Re: Testing Synchronet
    By: Tommi Koivula to Joe Delahaye on Thu Feb 16 2017 08:13:24

    BTW, which came first? FTS-0009 in its present format, or
    Synchronet and its message base?

    What has the message base type to do with messages sent to fidonet? :o


    How common, is comman useage <G>
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)
  • From Joe Delahaye@1:249/303 to Tommi Koivula on Thu Feb 16 11:11:46 2017
    Re: Testing Synchronet
    By: Tommi Koivula to Bill McGarrity on Thu Feb 16 2017 10:24:51

    I know one software which tries to read the originating
    address from the MSGID line. It fails in case of syncronet.

    Care to share?

    Soupgate.

    Please read the thread started "Wed, 3 Feb 2016 02:33:30 -0700" by Michael Buchholz.



    And how much use does Soupgate have these days? Seems to me that is from the early 90s as well, as I remember
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)
  • From Bill McGarrity@1:266/404 to Tommi Koivula on Thu Feb 16 14:06:00 2017
    Tommi Koivula wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-

    Bill McGarrity : Tommi Koivula wrote:

    Re: Testing Synchronet
    By: Tommi Koivula to Bill McGarrity on Thu Feb 16 2017 08:17:16

    Hiya Tommi...

    I know one software which tries to read the originating
    address from the MSGID line. It fails in case of syncronet.

    Care to share?

    Soupgate.

    Please read the thread started "Wed, 3 Feb 2016 02:33:30 -0700" by
    Michael Buchholz.

    So software used for gating purposes, which if I understand correctly, strips PATHs and SEEN-BYs is worried about MSGID's? If that's the case, I guess you're right but explain to me, how does it know which network it came from?


    --

    Bill

    Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
    Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:81
    FTP: ftp.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:2121
    IRC: irc.tequilamockingbirdonline.net Ports: 6661-6670 SSL: +6697
    Radio: radio.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:8010/live


    ... Look Twice... Save a Life!!! Motorcycles are Everywhere!!!
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ (1:266/404)
  • From Bill McGarrity@1:266/404 to Michiel van der Vlist on Thu Feb 16 14:39:00 2017
    Hiya Miciel...

    Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-

    On Wednesday February 15 2017 17:48, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

    So other software is flexible enough to not burp on none
    compliant MSGID's. That doesn't make it correct though...

    I'm sure if other software burped, then Rob would have taken care of
    the problem.

    How can you be so sure there are no problems? That you have no
    problems, does not mean no ones else has problems.

    Plus as mark stated, I don't think Rob has ever stated he followed the FTS-0009 standard.

    While it is true that FTS-0009 is not a required standard, if one
    follows part of it, one has to follow all of it. It uses the MSGID identifier, it uses the eight digit hexadecimal serial number and it
    uses the REPLY kludge. So it follows FTS-0009 in part. Explicitly
    stated or not. By following part of FTS-0009 but not all of it, one is
    in violation of it.

    So what your saying, if I was traveling on a highway clearly marked for max speed of 120km/hr yet I was doing 90, then I'd be in violation?

    If one thinks one has a better way of identifying message in Fidonet
    than FTS-0009, by all means give it a try. But then use something else for the keyword! Don't use MSGID for something that does not follow FTS-0009. That is annoying - if not excessively annoying - as it could cause problems for others.

    Question is, has it caused 'excessively amnnoying" issues? I'm sure if it did then a complaint would have been filed. As I am not the author of the software but a user who finds it extremely efficient in moving mail with exceptional dupe detection, I'll leave it up to the masses and/or the author to answer your obviously biased question.


    There are alot more problems with other software the FTSC needs to
    concern themselves with other than a few extra characters in a MSGID

    Writing documentation is something that is not done in a spare hour.
    One has to do the research, write it down in an unambigious and clear way, and last but not least go through the cat hearding exercise of reaching concensus on it. It takes a lot of time and effort.

    Understood. I'm sure it takes 4 times the labor to write software such as the ones we both are using and yet, I still see Synch as freeware that has active support. Your point?

    And what for? Not for the salary end certainly not for the virgins in Valhalla!

    Sorry, I've already deflowered those virgins... snooze ya lose... ;)

    Do you really think it is all right to ignore and violate FTSC
    standards, just by refraining from stating to follow them?

    Violation is in the eyes of the beholder. As stated above, would you say I was in violation of the speed limit because it stated one thing and I was doing another that falls within the guidelines?

    Do you really think that is the right attitude to encourage all those volunteers to spend time and energy on it?

    Obviously, if zero issues are being felt across the FTN community then I would feel they'd be satisfied their work was followed. The path towards a goal may take different routes but as long as those routes are parallel with zero interaction issues then what's the problem? I guess you can call it building a better wheel that fits all.

    Be well...


    --

    Bill

    Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
    Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:81
    FTP: ftp.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:2121
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    Radio: radio.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:8010/live


    ... Look Twice... Save a Life!!! Motorcycles are Everywhere!!!
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ (1:266/404)
  • From C.G. Learn@1:275/93 to Bill McGarrity on Thu Feb 16 16:05:12 2017
    Re: Re: Testing Synchronet
    By: Bill McGarrity to Michiel van der Vlist on Thu Feb 16 2017 02:39 pm


    And what for? Not for the salary end certainly not for the virgins
    in Valhalla!

    No Virgins here :)

    SysOp: C.G. Learn, AKA: DesotoFireflite
    Valhalla Home Services! - (Synchronet) - bbs.valhallabbs.com
    Valhalla II! - (GAP) - bbs.valhallabbs.com:24
    A Gamers Paradise - Over 150 Registered Online Game Doors!

    --- Don't You Know, Can't You See, Don't You Understand!
    * Origin: Telnet://valhalla.synchro.net - Richmond, Virginia (1:275/93)
  • From Bill McGarrity@1:266/404 to C.G. Learn on Thu Feb 16 20:32:00 2017
    C.G. Learn wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-

    Re: Re: Testing Synchronet
    By: Bill McGarrity to Michiel van der Vlist on Thu Feb 16 2017 02:39
    pm


    And what for? Not for the salary end certainly not for the virgins
    in Valhalla!

    No Virgins here :)

    Oh I know that.... I deflowered then many moons ago... ;)


    --

    Bill

    Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
    Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:81
    FTP: ftp.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:2121
    IRC: irc.tequilamockingbirdonline.net Ports: 6661-6670 SSL: +6697
    Radio: radio.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:8010/live


    ... Look Twice... Save a Life!!! Motorcycles are Everywhere!!!
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ (1:266/404)
  • From Drew Klenotic@1:2215/1701 to Allen Prunty on Thu Feb 16 20:50:40 2017
    On 15 Feb 17 12:21:05 Allen Prunty wrote...

    Just curious can someone please let me know how this is getting out?

    Allen --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32 * Origin: LiveWire BBS - Synchronet - LiveWireBBS.com (1:2320/100)

    To which Drew Klenotic replies...

    Bit conversion to electrical impulses.... magic... pixie dust... unicorn
    farts.

    --- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
    * Origin: RATSoft/ST - we do FIDO better! (1:2215/1701.0)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360.8110 to Joe Delahaye on Fri Feb 17 12:43:16 2017

    Hello Joe!

    16 Feb 17 11:11, you wrote to me:

    Re: Testing Synchronet
    By: Tommi Koivula to Bill McGarrity on Thu Feb 16 2017 10:24:51

    I know one software which tries to read the originating
    address from the MSGID line. It fails in case of syncronet.

    Care to share?

    Soupgate.

    Please read the thread started "Wed, 3 Feb 2016 02:33:30 -0700"
    by Michael Buchholz.

    And how much use does Soupgate have these days?

    I know two sysops. There may be more.

    But the point was that there is at least one program which does not like the non-standard MSGID.

    Seems to me that is from the early 90s as well, as I remember

    Nope, year 2000.

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: Point 8110. Ylojarvi, Finland. (2:221/360.8110)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360.8110 to Bill McGarrity on Fri Feb 17 12:47:42 2017

    Hello Bill!

    16 Feb 17 14:06, you wrote to me:

    I know one software which tries to read the originating
    address from the MSGID line. It fails in case of syncronet.

    Care to share?

    Soupgate.

    Please read the thread started "Wed, 3 Feb 2016 02:33:30 -0700"
    by Michael Buchholz.

    So software used for gating purposes, which if I understand correctly, strips PATHs and SEEN-BYs is worried about MSGID's? If that's the
    case, I guess you're right but explain to me, how does it know which network it came from?

    Now I don't understand the question.. :(

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: Point 8110. Ylojarvi, Finland. (2:221/360.8110)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Bill McGarrity on Fri Feb 17 13:22:34 2017
    Hello Bill,

    On Thursday February 16 2017 14:39, you wrote to me:

    While it is true that FTS-0009 is not a required standard, if
    one follows part of it, one has to follow all of it. It uses the
    MSGID identifier, it uses the eight digit hexadecimal serial
    number and it uses the REPLY kludge. So it follows FTS-0009 in
    part. Explicitly stated or not. By following part of FTS-0009
    but not all of it, one is in violation of it.

    So what your saying, if I was traveling on a highway clearly marked
    for max speed of 120km/hr yet I was doing 90, then I'd be in
    violation?

    No, those are your words, not mine. What I say is this:

    Quote from FTS-0009.001

    This FTS (FidoNet(r) Technical Standard) specifies an optional
    standard for the FidoNet community. Implementation of the
    protocols defined in this document is not mandatory, but all
    implementations of these protocols are expected to adhere to this
    standard.

    IOW, if you follow part of it, you must follow all of it.

    If one thinks one has a better way of identifying message in
    Fidonet than FTS-0009, by all means give it a try. But then use
    something else for the keyword! Don't use MSGID for something
    that does not follow FTS-0009. That is annoying - if not
    excessively annoying - as it could cause problems for others.

    Question is, has it caused 'excessively amnnoying" issues?

    If it could cause problems, it is annoying. If it actually has caused problems it has endangered "the smooth operation of the network" and that is excessively
    annoying.

    It has been demonstrated that at least one programme - SoupGate - barfs on the abberrant MSGID, so it /has/ caused problems.

    I'm sure if it did then a complaint would have been filed.

    Why are you so sure? Is filing a complaint the only way you know of resolving issues?

    Is simply asking you to stop using the software at fault, at least until it is fixed, not enough for you?

    As I am not the author of the software but a user who finds it

    The sysop is reponsible for what originates from his system. You can not delegate that responsibility to the author of the software. The decision to use
    that non complient software is yours and yours alone.

    Do you really think it is all right to ignore and violate FTSC
    standards, just by refraining from stating to follow them?

    Violation is in the eyes of the beholder.

    No, it is not. Not in this case. The originating network of your message I respond to is Fidonet. Your message says:

    MSGID: 4601.2fidotest@1:266/404 1d0b496c

    "4601.2fidotest@1:266/404" is not a valid return address in Fidonet as required
    by FTS-0009.

    Nothing "eye of the beholder" about it, it is an objectively verifyable fact.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20130111
    * Origin: Bl?f T?n?n (2:280/5555)
  • From Bill McGarrity@1:266/404 to Michiel van der Vlist on Fri Feb 17 09:05:56 2017
    Re: Testing Synchronet
    By: Michiel van der Vlist to Bill McGarrity on Fri Feb 17 2017 13:22:35

    Hiya Michiel...

    Question is, has it caused 'excessively amnnoying" issues?

    If it could cause problems, it is annoying. If it actually has caused problems it has endangered "the smooth operation of the network" and
    that is excessively annoying.

    Well, so far it hasn't caused an issue with anyone or anything.

    It has been demonstrated that at least one programme - SoupGate -
    barfs on the abberrant MSGID, so it /has/ caused problems.


    --

    Bill

    Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
    Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:81
    FTP: ftp.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:2121
    IRC: irc.tequilamockingbirdonline.net Ports: 6661-6670 SSL: 6697
    Radio: radio.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:8010/live

    ... Look TWICE.... Save a life.... Motorcycles are EVERYWHERE!!
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ (1:266/404)
  • From Joe Delahaye@1:249/303 to Tommi Koivula on Fri Feb 17 16:30:04 2017
    Re: Testing Synchronet
    By: Tommi Koivula to Joe Delahaye on Fri Feb 17 2017 12:43:16

    I know one software which tries to read the originating
    address from the MSGID line. It fails in case of syncronet.

    Care to share?

    Soupgate.

    Please read the thread started "Wed, 3 Feb 2016 02:33:30 -0700"
    by Michael Buchholz.

    And how much use does Soupgate have these days?

    I know two sysops. There may be more.

    But the point was that there is at least one program which does not like the non-standard MSGID.

    Seems to me that is from the early 90s as well, as I remember

    Nope, year 2000.


    If memory serves me, my NC at the time (around 1992-93) used that program, or a similar sounding one, to import UUCP stuff.
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Bill McGarrity on Sat Feb 18 10:23:22 2017
    Hello Bill,

    On Friday February 17 2017 09:05, you wrote to me:

    If it could cause problems, it is annoying. If it actually has
    caused problems it has endangered "the smooth operation of the
    network" and that is excessively annoying.

    Well, so far it hasn't caused an issue with anyone or anything.

    So you say it is all right to ignore red lights as long as no accidents are reported?

    It has been demonstrated that at least one programme - SoupGate -
    barfs on the abberrant MSGID, so it /has/ caused problems.

    See above.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20130111
    * Origin: Bl?f T?n?n (2:280/5555)
  • From Bill McGarrity@1:266/404 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sat Feb 18 12:39:00 2017
    Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Bill McGarrity on 02-18-17 10:23 <=-


    On Friday February 17 2017 09:05, you wrote to me:

    If it could cause problems, it is annoying. If it actually has
    caused problems it has endangered "the smooth operation of the
    network" and that is excessively annoying.

    Well, so far it hasn't caused an issue with anyone or anything.

    So you say it is all right to ignore red lights as long as no accidents are reported?

    I never stop at red lights... ny brother may be coming the other way... ;)

    It has been demonstrated that at least one programme - SoupGate -
    barfs on the abberrant MSGID, so it /has/ caused problems.

    See above.


    As I stated, Soupgate deals with USENET and as such, doesn't fall within the spectrum of exclusively "Fidonet".


    --

    Bill

    Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
    Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:81
    FTP: ftp.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:2121
    IRC: irc.tequilamockingbirdonline.net Ports: 6661-6670 SSL: +6697
    Radio: radio.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:8010/live


    ... Look Twice... Save a Life!!! Motorcycles are Everywhere!!!
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ (1:266/404)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sat Feb 18 12:08:08 2017
    Hello Michiel,

    On Sat Feb 18 2017 10:23:22, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Bill McGarrity:

    Well, so far it hasn't caused an issue with anyone or anything.

    So you say it is all right to ignore red lights as long as no
    accidents are reported?

    Absolutely. Get over it.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20161221
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1.1 to Bill McGarrity on Sun Feb 19 09:17:36 2017

    18 Feb 17 12:39:00, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

    It has been demonstrated that at least one programme - SoupGate -
    barfs on the abberrant MSGID, so it /has/ caused problems.

    See above.

    As I stated, Soupgate deals with USENET and as such, doesn't fall
    within the spectrum of exclusively "Fidonet".

    I'd like to think that Soupgate is a fidonet tosser as any. It stores messages into smtp or nntp, not jam or squish.

    It acts as mailing list manager also. You may access this echo by sending email
    with subject "subscribe" to fidotest@rbb.bbs.fi.

    'Tommi

    ... \\HAL has been up for: 92 day(s), 8 hour(s), 31 minute(s), 43 second(s)
    ---
    * Origin: Point One. Ylojarvi, Finland. (2:221/1.1)
  • From Bill McGarrity@1:266/404 to Tommi Koivula on Sun Feb 19 14:27:00 2017
    Tommi Koivula wrote to Bill McGarrity on 02-19-17 09:17 <=-

    18 Feb 17 12:39:00, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

    It has been demonstrated that at least one programme - SoupGate -
    barfs on the abberrant MSGID, so it /has/ caused problems.

    See above.

    As I stated, Soupgate deals with USENET and as such, doesn't fall
    within the spectrum of exclusively "Fidonet".

    I'd like to think that Soupgate is a fidonet tosser as any. It stores messages into smtp or nntp, not jam or squish.

    It acts as mailing list manager also. You may access this echo by
    sending email with subject "subscribe" to fidotest@rbb.bbs.fi.

    And SBBS can do the same. Your point?


    --

    Bill

    Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
    Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:81
    FTP: ftp.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:2121
    IRC: irc.tequilamockingbirdonline.net Ports: 6661-6670 SSL: +6697
    Radio: radio.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:8010/live


    ... Look Twice... Save a Life!!! Motorcycles are Everywhere!!!
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ (1:266/404)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360.3001 to Bill McGarrity on Mon Feb 20 05:11:36 2017
    Bill McGarrity wrote:

    As I stated, Soupgate deals with USENET and as such, doesn't fall within the spectrum of exclusively "Fidonet".

    I'd like to think that Soupgate is a fidonet tosser as any. It stores messages into smtp or nntp, not jam or squish.

    It acts as mailing list manager also. You may access this echo by sending email with subject "subscribe" to fidotest@rbb.bbs.fi.

    And SBBS can do the same. Your point?

    Nothing special. Just letting you know.

    The harm caused is only for syncronet people. If some soupgate user wants to reply to a syncronet user by email/netmail, the replies fail. :D

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: rbb soupgate, the nntp echomail junction at (2:221/360.3001)
  • From Bill McGarrity@1:266/404 to Tommi Koivula on Sun Feb 19 23:10:00 2017
    Tommi Koivula wrote to Bill McGarrity on 02-20-17 05:11 <=-

    Bill McGarrity wrote:

    As I stated, Soupgate deals with USENET and as such, doesn't fall within the spectrum of exclusively "Fidonet".

    I'd like to think that Soupgate is a fidonet tosser as any. It stores messages into smtp or nntp, not jam or squish.

    It acts as mailing list manager also. You may access this echo by sending email with subject "subscribe" to fidotest@rbb.bbs.fi.

    And SBBS can do the same. Your point?

    Nothing special. Just letting you know.

    The harm caused is only for syncronet people. If some soupgate user
    wants to reply to a syncronet user by email/netmail, the replies fail.
    :D

    Since when does email use MSGID?


    --

    Bill

    Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
    Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:81
    FTP: ftp.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:2121
    IRC: irc.tequilamockingbirdonline.net Ports: 6661-6670 SSL: +6697
    Radio: radio.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:8010/live


    ... Look Twice... Save a Life!!! Motorcycles are Everywhere!!!
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ (1:266/404)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Tommi Koivula on Mon Feb 20 13:37:00 2017
    Hello Tommi,

    Sunday February 19 2017 23:10, Bill McGarrity wrote to you:

    The harm caused is only for syncronet people. If some soupgate
    user wants to reply to a syncronet user by email/netmail, the
    replies fail.

    :D

    Since when does email use MSGID?

    It is always the same pattern. First there is denial. There is no violation of the standard because [...] When that has been debunked, they say: "I am sure that if there were any problems they would have been fixed, but there are no problems."

    When you point out, that problems HAVE been reported, they say "that doesn't count because [...]".

    And then when they have run out of arguments with that line, they change the subject.

    <sigh>

    I really wonder what is the point of documenting standards when anyone can just
    ignore them when they feel like it. :(


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20130111
    * Origin: Bl?f T?n?n (2:280/5555)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360.2000 to Bill McGarrity on Mon Feb 20 17:52:52 2017
    From: Tommi Koivula <tommi@koivula.iki.fi>
    To: Bill McGarrity <fidotest@rbb.bbs.fi>

    Bill McGarrity wrote:

    The harm caused is only for syncronet people. If some soupgate
    user wants to reply to a syncronet user by email/netmail, the
    replies fail. :D

    Since when does email use MSGID?

    I'm replying this by email. Your "from" line looks like this:

    Bill.McGarrity@f360.n221.z4618.ftn.zone.not.available.rbb.dy.fi

    According to fidonet standard FTS-0009 which Michiel pointed out, your
    original echomail message should contain a valid fidonet return address
    in MSGID line. It does not, so Soupgate fails to read your return address.

    The next message from Michiel contains a "from" line:

    Michiel.van.der.Vlist@f5555.n280.z2.rbb.bbs.fi

    So I can reply him from my email.

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: rbb soupgate, the fidonet-internet junction (2:221/360.2000)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360.2000 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Feb 20 17:56:00 2017
    From: Tommi Koivula <tommi@koivula.iki.fi>
    To: Michiel van der Vlist <fidotest@rbb.bbs.fi>
    To: Michiel.van.der.Vlist@f5555.n280.z2.rbb.bbs.fi

    Michiel van der Vlist wrote:

    <sigh>

    I really wonder what is the point of documenting standards when
    anyone can just ignore them when they feel like it. :(

    Correct.

    You are as a FTSC member the quilty one! :D :D

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: rbb soupgate, the fidonet-internet junction (2:221/360.2000)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360.3001 to Nicholas Boel on Mon Feb 20 18:06:24 2017
    Nicholas Boel wrote:

    Hello Michiel,
    On Sat Feb 18 2017 10:23:22, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Bill McGarrity: BM>> Well, so far it hasn't caused an issue with anyone or anything.
    So you say it is all right to ignore red lights as long as no
    accidents are reported?
    Absolutely. Get over it.

    :D

    Regards,
    Nick

    Consider this reply only as a test from my android phone. ;)

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."

    ---
    * Origin: rbb soupgate, the nntp echomail junction at (2:221/360.3001)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Tommi Koivula on Mon Feb 20 14:03:02 2017
    Hello Tommi,

    On Mon Feb 20 2017 18:06:24, Tommi Koivula wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    Consider this reply only as a test from my android phone. ;)

    Okay.

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."

    That's not what the original said! :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20161221
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360.3001 to Nicholas Boel on Tue Feb 21 06:11:12 2017
    Nicholas Boel wrote:

    Hello Tommi,
    On Mon Feb 20 2017 18:06:24, Tommi Koivula wrote to Nicholas Boel:
    Consider this reply only as a test from my android phone. ;)
    Okay.
    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    That's not what the original said! :)

    Lets have another try.. Utf8 in hotdog settings now on..

    Regards,
    Nick
    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."

    ---
    * Origin: rbb soupgate, the nntp echomail junction at (2:221/360.3001)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Tommi Koivula on Tue Feb 21 17:31:26 2017
    Hello Tommi,

    On Tue Feb 21 2017 06:11:12, Tommi Koivula wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    @PID: SoupGate-OS/2 v1.10 20170121
    @CHRS: UTF-8 4

    Lets have another try.. Utf8 in hotdog settings now on..

    Regards,
    Nick
    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."

    Much better. :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "?? ????. ? ????? ?????? ???????."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20161221
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)